Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

It’s most definitely not a hardship to live with right now. A good proportion of my students are involved in gender activism and communities - many more so (I’m a lesbian) than at any time since I was a teenager. It’s a place to find community at the moment - especially online. It certainly wasn’t twenty or thirty years ago; but “transgenderism” did not exist then - “cross-dressing”, being gay and being “transsexual” were understood as vey different things. They have only been joined together in one “identity” very recently.

I certainly have known a few old-school transsexuals who had sex reassignment surgery. I think it is a very different thing to the current ideology of gender identity. But, as a historian of sexuality, I’m also highly aware that the whole construction of “transsexualism” only arose in the twentieth century, partly as a result of the popularity of early twentieth century “sexologists” who began to claim that homosexuality was a form of “sex inversion”. The idea of the “transsexual” arose out of that and out of new surgical experiments largely on gay men and women. That does not mean that there are no people who truly desire to change sex. But until very recently these were a very small number, largely male, and often also suffering from other psychiatric disorders.

Having researched the history of mental illnesses and social contagions for more than twenty years, I do think, yes, that a large proportion of those currently identifying as transgender are part of a widespread social contagion that looks structurally almost identical to the “identity” /pathology fashions of earlier periods. In 1890 they would probably have called themselves “neurasthenics”. In 1790 it would have been excessive “sensibility”. And to be honest, it’s probably as much related to the normalisation of cosmetic surgery during the last twenty years as anything else.

Sorry I missed your first question.

The problem is , we can't answer that because we aren't transgender.

The people to talk to are real transgender people. They do exist. not the 2nd hand speculations of gossip concern.

But that's not the same issue.

A trans man doesn't think he's a man. He wants to live, feel, operate as a man because that's how he feels. I'm sure he's painfully aware he's not a man.

However, we can choose to support this instead of the faux "but how can one change sex",

A friend of mine believes she'll be reunited with her mum when she dies. A view many of us talk about.

Would I leap onto social media and start saying "No you won't, don't be ridiculous".

No? Why?

How does someone live as the other sex? (I know what the other sex means because there are only two.) If I wanted to live as a man, what would I have to do?

I don't think people here are denying the beliefs of other people. But we should be clear that they are just beliefs, not facts.

I did answer the question?

I don't think that's a discussion for you to have.

I feel like this is a thinly veiled attempt to want to faun over the trauma of this poor child , like a sort of second hand soap.

If your child genuienly wants to discuss the complexities of transgender, let them.

I would think it's far more likely than the potential suicide (I hope you don't discuss this with your child) is far more traumatic.

Incidentally, why is this situation more about the sibling and not the child in question?

Can you explain to me what gender identity is and where it comes from and where it resides?
A good example of my suggestion to "Listen. Ask questions."
I'm not sure of what you do when if they never answer the question. It makes sensible discussion a bit difficult.

Someone born as a sex that wants to live as the other sex (and I know you're going to ask me what I mean by the other sex, but the arguments come because we aren't (I assume) transgender!)

I struggle with people desperate to deny the beliefs of other people. Live and let live, no?

So do you genuinely, genuinely not believe that a single person is transgender?

I have known and worked with trans people, mainly young. I don't know a single one yet who has done it because someone else is.

Far from being 'cool', it's a hardship to live with, mainly because of the lack of acceptance.

They are transgender. that's a fact.

Can you explain what you mean by transgender?

I don't disagree with your second statement, but I have a problem with these statistics.

Where are you getting them from? Who are you asking?

Transgender children having a broken home life and mental illnesses does not make transgender a mental illness.

Well, you can't say they "think" they're trans.

I don't believe in God. Doesnt mean I say people "think" they're Christian.

They are transgender. that's a fact. Whether people deny the concept is a different thing.

@stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou It really isn’t “grossly unfair”. “Ana” ideology circulated on the internet exhaustively in early webrings, a bit like Tumblr in 2015-20, and there was a very similar culture of “identifying” with it for many teens, just as there is today with gender ideology.

I’ve worked with older teenagers for more than twenty years, and where 25 years ago it was emo and cutting, 20 years ago it was eating disorders and webring poetry, 15 years ago it was drinking societies and Lib Dem activism (Cleggmania was bizarrely rife among teenagers!), ten years ago social anxiety disorders, and five years ago Corbyn and decolonisation; the current fashion is gender ideology. It’s no different from any social contagion and if you read Tumblr or are on any Discord servers it’s been circulating in all its glory for some time before going mainstream.

I happen to work on the social history of psychological diagnoses and mental illnesses, and there were plenty of similar ideological “conditions” that popped up every so often and then disappeared again a couple of decades later. In this sense “transgender” is merely the current version of hysteria or neurasthenia or “sexual inversion” or “moral insanity” or whatever. It may seem innate and fixed and imminent now; but that’s what people have always thought about whatever “diagnosis” is fashionably popular at the time.

What, for example, distinguishes “transgenderism” from “body dysmorphic disorder” (a kindred syndrome to eating disorders); or indeed BID, body integrity disorder? The psychological construction of these is almost exactly identical. In each one, the affected person believes the syndrome is innate and identity-based, even if it’s a demonstrable pathology. Why is gender identity any different? Can you explain to me what gender identity is and where it comes from and where it resides?

What, in essence, differentiates gender ideology from social contagion?

This. It's exactly how you answer RE questions for exams too.

I'm used to explaining the world like this to my children.

As someone said above, approaching it with a pluralist perspective works ie some people believe this and some believe that. We respect each others right to believe different things... This has usually led to my child asking, ok so what do you believe mum? I tell her, she usually says, yeah, me too.

My children have asked me questions about this. My young teen in particular was very confused following some kind of pshe lesson or whatever it's called now.

I said there are people who believe they are the opposite sex. It's important to be respectful but also to understand that you can't actually change sex. I was keen to emphasise this as there had previously been some talk of a couple in their year "becoming" gay (girl and boy, girl then identified as a boy and they were still together) and wanted to make sure my own teen understood that from a biological (let's face it, potential baby making) point of view they are not a gay couple.

We talked a bit about sex vs gender too, looking back I'm not sure how much of this bit they got. But they've asked me things a few times so I suppose (like lots of things) it's an ongoing conversation.

Interestingly (given some of the advice above) we've had similar chats about religion.

Comparing transgender to an eating disorder is grossly, grossly unfair and you know it.

No it's not.
The parallels are blinding obvious.

When I grew up about 1 in 20 teenage girls had bulimia nervosa or anorexia when that disorder de jour was at it's peak.
Nowadays about 1 in 20 girls have gender dysphoria, which is the present day disorder de jour, which has completely replaced anorexia and bulimia.

Eating disorders and gender dysphoria both involve intense obsession of the self and self image, both stem from deep insecurity and often involve trauma or otherwise broken home life, and are often coupled with other mental health problems.

stopwaiting, you are quite wrong. Over 80% of children who “think they are trans” turn out not to be - the majority being either gay, autistic, have a history of sex abuse, or are simply upset by puberty and dislike the resulting unwanted male attention.
Watchful waiting is now recommended, to avoid these children being permanently damaged by puberty blockers, surgery and cross sex hormones. The scandal of detransitioners is testament to the folly of insisting any child is trans who claims to be.

What does that mean?

Put simply, this child feels internally that they are male, not female.

What should the op say if her son asks what it means to feel like a male and not a female?

Yes treat it like a religion. Some people believe X and you need to be respectful of that but it doesn't mean it's true (other people believe Y and this is the evidence for that). You may or may not believe it and that's your choice etc etc.

Have you son lead the discussion with questions so you know what's troubling him. (including reassurance that you won't judge, it's confidential etc)

I would focus on how sad it is that X is struggling if your son believes in gender ideology and might react badly to a GC viewpoint.

It's ok to say "What do you think?" to some of his questions. If he's not ready for some difficult questions then focus on the fact that you hope that the changes that X has made makes them happy.

And they don't think they are trans. They are.