Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

Oh-kay. Taking a deep breath here.

I'll answer that question for you. First year of secondary school, so 11 years old, walking on the way to school and back, in school uniform. So your school day starts with sexual intimidation from adults.

But does it stop there? Well, the only way it can stop there is if sexually aggressive behaviour is something male people only commit from their 18th birthday onwards.

This certainly didn't use to be the case. Teenage boys pinged bra-straps, asked you if you do anal in front of their mates (in some attempt to impress them), comment on whether sanitary pads and underwear lines were showing, and loads more besides. Worst of all, a newdpaper reported that stats showed that an average of one rape a day was recorded in our nation's schools.

There is, in fact, right now, a pupil-led campaign to expose the culture of sexual harassment in schools, called Everyone's Invited, in which children named and shamed their schools for allowing sexual harassment and abuse.

Did i say that?

And now I realise I've got sucked into discussing how men should sort out other men's behaviour. Why should that be my problem to solve?

Why is there always an agenda though?why does everything come back to women being either martyrs or scared of men? Why are we putting that on children?

Firstly, we would need to admit the fact that men in that category do not get the support they need, and should have.

• The Women and Equalities committee (WEC) state that a number of large-scale surveys found that girls are consistently reporting high levels of sexual harassment and sexual violence in schools and colleges.

• Girlguiding's Girls' 2021 Research briefing: It happens all the time found that 67% of girls and young women aged 13-18 surveyed have experienced sexual harassment at school from another student, and that 29% first experienced sexual harassment when they were just 11-13 years old.

• Almost a quarter (24%) of female students and 4% of male students at mixed-sex schools have been subjected to unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature while at school.12

8. More statistical evidence can be found at

• NSPCC Learning - statistics on child abuse

• CSA Centre - The scale and nature of CSA

• Office for National Statistics (ONS) - Child sexual abuse in England and Wales

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1014224/Sexual_violence_and_sexual_harassment_between_children_in_schools_and_colleges.pdf

..this still avoids thd issue.

What do you think would happen if a boy wore a skirt to school?

Theres a whole bloody film and documentary about a boy wanting to wear a dress to a prom

All of that said, how on earth is a dress or skirt more 'convenient'

I was going to add something about some girls possibly just liking a gentle, feminine boy, but decided to be concise.

My point was that boys aren't always accepting of girls, or of boys who are a bit feminine. Girls are more likely to be accepting.

What's your suggestion for getting boys and men to be more accepting of more feminine men? I assume you have some answers since you've criticised me for not having all the answers.

What do i take for granted?

Can I please point out that my right to wear trousers as a woman was won by women who went out there and defiantly wore trousers. It was not gently handed to my mother and grandmother, it was fought for by their generations, and it was a huge battle.

If men and boys want to wear dresses and skirts just because they find them more convenient, as women wanted to wear trousers, they should not reprove women for it. First they should tell their fathers and grandfathers off for not having had sorted that, and second, then just get themselves down to the tailors and have some dress fittings.

so I'm aware thats something I may well take for granted.

It's pretty clear you take a lot of things women have fought for in the past for granted. You might want to think about that - a lot of what women fought hard for is now under threat - our rights a very fragile.

Last time I looked, there were not adult men sitting in the classroom. And this is what I am referring directly to. The fact that girls are freer in a school socially than boys.

I'm not excusing the appalling, abhorrent treatment of girls and women. But that is not what we are discussing.

At what age do you think girls first experience catcalling and sexual harassment from adult men?

Was it socially acceptable for boys to dress as girls, though?

At the risk of getting hammered, I would say that some of the movement has come from the astonishing revelation that there are boys who want to dress "like girls, if you will, that are not just doing so in order to infringe on womens' rights and get in their spaces.

I just find it mind blowing that an incredible movement like feminism can't comprehend that boys still do not have that social ability. But we can't answer that, because if i ask that, il be told its the mans' problem.

Lily was campaigning in 2016. bit of a difference (and I dont mean that rudely).

Have you ever heard of a female pupil not allowed to wear trousers?

Yep. My all school which I left at 18 in 2005.

The reason FTM is more common in schools is ironically because it is far, far more socially acceptable. Do you really believe it's as easy for a boy to dress in female clothing in a school environment as it is for a girl?

When I was a teenager in the 70s, it was socially acceptable for girls to dress like boys. We didn't have to pretend to be boys then, or say we wanted to be boys. How did we get here? What went wrong?

Okaydoke.

I forgot I wasn't entitled to an opinion.

Incidentally, given that identifying usually comes mid teens, I'm not sold on a massive level of sex class disadvantage at that age - but I appreciate that will have me reaching for my helmet (or my duvet!)

I mean... I can't even with this.

Done.

"all male spaces" at secondary school? Thankfully kids are more accepting.

(having been socialised to be kind) - yet another dragged out cliche about us poor martyr women. Maybe they accept him because they like him? imagine! We aren't doing ourselves any favours painting ourselves to be poor martyr souls with no mind of our owns.

Yes, it's easy to pass the buck when you haven't got the answers.

Are they? Based on?

Child.

School child.

Not allowed to wear a skirt

Have you ever heard of a female pupil not allowed to wear trousers?

Male children, boys (however they choose to identify gender wise), sexually assault female children, girls (however they choose to identify gender wise), at an astonishingly disproportionate rate.

The rate has increased significantly in recent years.

Boys are significantly stronger physically, whatever gender. This puts girls of all genders at a disadvantage.

Girls of all genders also experience menstruation. It's a big deal and it requires privacy for dignity purposes.

For ALL of these reasons, sex should determine all safeguarding situations.

Identify as whatever gender you please. Boys still have advantages determined by their biology and pose a statistically significantly higher risk of sexual assault, compared to girls.

The fact that boys who have gender identities do not benefit from women's rights, is NOT a disadvantage. Women's rights exists solely to give girls equality to the boys as they already are, whatever gender.

Ooft, I never said they were. I remember it well and I work amongst it.

My point was being Angela Rayner's poster girl will not undo the amount of damage done to Lily early on. Equally, I don't agree with Caitlyn Jenner winning Women of the year. Eliot Page has carved out a successful career as an acting man but is still getting a hammering for a relationship with a woman by the lesbian community.

My point being, everyone has their own struggles, and using people for a political agenda is all well, but ultimately nobody is any better than anybody else.

On a serious level Lyn, if you think I ignore any child with any difficulties when I've been rattling on about working with school pupils all night....course I don't. I care about, support and fight for all my pupils regardless of who they are , what they are and where they're from.

Incidentally, given that identifying usually comes mid teens, I'm not sold on a massive level of sex class disadvantage at that age - but I appreciate that will have me reaching for my helmet (or my duvet!)

The 19 year old who wasn't allowed in a female toilet,

You missed out a word there.

The 19 year old boy who wasn't allowed in a female toilet,

That was meant to say:

Exactly. Girls are SO much more likely to accept a trans girl in their friendship group than boys are likely to accept a trans boy in their friendship group. By far!