Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

I didn't say that. I said Girls are only allowed to wear the girls' uniform and boys the boys' uniform. So both are restricted, according to each school's uniform rules.

And you have no comments at all on the main part (last paragraph) of my post?

That girls can only wear girls clothing.

Not true.

Which part?

Not true.

Girls can wear skirts, trousers, leggings, skinny jeans (in my school) cardis, jumpers, tops over or under shirts.

Boys can wear?

This is such a minir point but the lengths of discussion to avoid a minor point rather than admit boys have it harder on that regard is outstanding.

I pointed out that its far easier for.girls to dress in 'boys'.clothes, if you will, than boys, socially in a school setting.

What has this to do with anything? Girls are only allowed to wear the girls' uniform and boys the boys' uniform. So both are restricted, according to each school's uniform rules.

But more generally, it being more acceptable for girls to dress as boys should make 'transition' less necessary for girls, not more, if it's gender stereotypes they're trying to avoid. If a girl can dress like a boy and enjoy stereotypically male activities she has no need to 'identify as' a boy in order to do these things. A boy might feel he needs to 'identify as' a girl if he wants to wear dresses and enjoys stereotypically female activities, because these things are less acceptable for boys.

How come whataboutery is only Ok if its in favour od women? None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand.

And thanks @DomesticatedZombie , but il ignore your arrogance on telling.me what language is used in my own town and community.

A non grouping, non sexist one.

Im not unaware of sexual harassment.

My response was what that had to do with the point at hand.

I didnt say anything like that, but you and your friends of who ever are more tham welcome.to not engage with me.

But a destructive learning environment for girls is irrelevant to the point at hand, and whataboutery.

People are so determined to shut down anything regarding males that the minor point i made pages ago has dragged on. A Pp asked why transgender is so high and why children cant be label less
I pointed out that its far easier for.girls to dress in 'boys'.clothes, if you will, than boys, socially in a school setting..now we are talking aboit harassment and assault which has nothing to do with anything.

Quokkas are weird little beasties aren't they.

Fast as well...no wonder its taking you an age 😀

Yes prelates. I have been off fucking checking on the dear little quokkas. It is such a fucking long way that I am not there yet. Maybe the camel in the bluestocking can help.

Incidentally, as ive always said on these threads ,i dont believe its on a sex to sort out their behaviour. We wouldnt expect that of any other group.

Of course we expect groups to sort out their own behaviour. What planet are you on? If football matches include high incidences of racism and violence, we expect people with power in the football world to try and tackle it.
If people in government abuse their power, we expect people in government to tackle it.
If the police were racist and violent we would expect people in power in the police to sort it out. (Or at least pretend to, I've lost hope really).

Incidentally, one sex has far more actual power in this society than the other. So of course they should try and sort it out.

Just to be clear permission - you think Black people are over-represented in prison, crime stats, etc not because they have societal disadvantages but just because they are Black? You say they have the same opportunities as everyone else - no disadvantage due to class, race, etc - as you reject this concept.

There's not really much convincing these 'All Lives Matter' types.

~~Shall friends of Bunbury maybe consider which kind of people we wish to expend our energies on? If someone I met in the pub was to show themselves as massively racist I don't think I'd bother trying to convince them otherwise.~~

Lily Madigan has subsequently fallen off the radar, following a series of allegations of sexual assault.

No, it's really not.

Well live and let live has resulted in the numbers of detransistioners rising, have you ever seeked their stories? It's heartbreaking to hear young boys and girls, who have chopped of their body parts in their teens and early twenties, just to realise it was all a mistake. And live and let live has also resulted in men in womens sports and single sec spaces being eroded away.

Absolutely this. We (girls and women) have had to fight for our rights for years. Nevermind the fact those hard earned rights are being challenged currently, how about boys and men campaign for the right for them / their peers to be able to be more 'free' socially?

@Chickenyhead shared this data in response to you saying:

Last time I looked, there were not adult men sitting in the classroom. And this is what I am referring directly to. The fact that girls are freer in a school socially than boys.

67% of girls have experienced sexual harassment from another student.

Have you taken this on board and will it shape your view on the subject?

It's worrying you didn't realise the prevalence of this issue before considering your job so I'm glad someone cool inform you.

And again, if boys at any given school want to wear skirts, they will have to do what my mother's generation did with trousers- achieve a social consensus and organise a coordinated action in which they all wear skirts to school.

Like this:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/schoolboys-skirts-isac-academy-exeter-devon-win-battle-shorts-school-uniform-heatwave-dress-code-a7825056.html

So it's up to women to sort out men's behaviour towards other men?

Men also behave unacceptably towards women and girls. My priority, if I had the power to change men's behaviour, would be to stop them from raping, sexually assaulting and sexually harassing women and girls.

Them being a bit unkind to some other men comes a bit lower down my list of priorities.

But since you seem to think that women can change men's behaviour, how do we stop them from raping women and girls?

Apology accepted.

But it is what the world is like, whether or not you condone it, and so it must be taken into account when we discuss social inequalities.

Now that I have found out what was meant, I do not think boys being unable to wear skirts to school outweighs a destructive learning environment for girls.

And again, if boys at any given school want to wear skirts, they will have to do what my mother's generation did with trousers- achieve a social consensus and organise a coordinated action in which they all wear skirts to school.

Whatsapp and other forms of social media could help them with that.

Men not accepting other men is a man issue.

Apologies.

I would assume people would know i didnt think it was perfectly acceptable tl harass and assault, and that that is not wjat i meant by free.