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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Snooker

166 replies

TeenPlusCat · 27/04/2022 15:21

I've been dipping in and out of the snooker this week, and a bit came up this afternoon about the women's world championship, and the fact that 2 women are now qualified to go on the main tour.
Anyway, they mentioned in passing that the first transgender (MtF) snooker player had got to the semi finals (Jamie Hunter).

Now obviously there is no obvious physical disadvantage to women playing snooker (except I suspect height and reach will still make a difference), but there is obviously a women's competition for a reason....
A teen boy hanging out playing pool/snooker would be a lot more usual than a teen girl, so at the age Jamie was developing their skills, a girl would be much less likely to have felt welcome?

OP posts:
Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 27/04/2022 16:01

Jamie made the semi final of the very first event they played, the English womens open in 2021

height & reach make a considerable difference but even if Jamie was 5ft with a tiny reach, they are male & don’t belong on the womens tour. A biological woman is missing out so Jamie can play, that is unfair.

JustALittleHelpPlease · 27/04/2022 15:58

None of the usual cited factors have a bearing in the sport, strength, hand size, lung capacity, speed etc are not factors. There are sex categories because it was a "man" sport until women said hang on a minute. They then got fobbed off with their own league. Not because they were different to men but because they weren't men. That simple and basic.

Trying to make this about protecting women is where it starts to sound a bit silly. The correct fight to have here is the inclusion of women as a whole to the same leagues as men - including the sponsorship, coaching opportunities etc that the men get. Trying to fight to keep transwomen out of the women's league is arse about face.

EufyProsser · 27/04/2022 15:58

I've wondered the same thing about darts - how much is physical strength/reach, and how much is time spent playing over and over?

Toseland · 27/04/2022 15:57

I come from a family of snooker enthusiasts and used to play pool quite well but I gave it up in my teens due to my boobs becoming too large to play without some comment or sniggering from men and making it more difficult leaning over at the table. Also my hands were too small to make a good arch which put me at a disadvantage to the men and I just didn’t have the height or reach to move up to snooker.
We shouldn’t forget that in any sport, even those that initially seem like they could be easily mixed, women are often at a disadvantage due to menstruation.

Believerinbiology · 27/04/2022 15:55

Higglighying: Jamie ranks 5th in the world based on the last 12 months. The women ranked 1 and 2 are on the professional circuit...but it definitely couldn't be about the money....could it?

dropthevipers · 27/04/2022 15:52

PaleBlueMoonlight · 27/04/2022 15:38

Surely strength also makes a difference in snooker?

Er, no

purpleboy · 27/04/2022 15:51

Dinosauria · 27/04/2022 15:44

is it fair they take the place of someone else?

This is the question, if it means a women now can't compete then I don't agree with it, if a women doesn't get a chance to complete in the world championships then it is wrong.

This is the problem isn't it, it's not fairness in the sense of biological differences, but fairness in that a women has now lost out to a man.

Believerinbiology · 27/04/2022 15:49

I'd be interested in seeing Jamie's stats from 2019 when competing before transition. 2022 is the first year competing in the women's and already ranked 14th in the world overall and 5th in the world when only this year taken into account.
If there is no advantage/difference why is Jamie competing in the women's?

Dinosauria · 27/04/2022 15:44

is it fair they take the place of someone else?

This is the question, if it means a women now can't compete then I don't agree with it, if a women doesn't get a chance to complete in the world championships then it is wrong.

donquixotedelamancha · 27/04/2022 15:40

But there must be some kind of social disadvantage that the women's competitions are trying to overcome? Otherwise they wouldn't have them?

I think you are assuming cause and effect where non exists. The social disadvantage and the segregated sport have a common cause- sexism. Breaking that barrier down by having women in the 'mens' event is a good thing.

I don't think there is any basis to stop transwomen competing against women in sports where there is no advantage. We want to work towards those sports being mixed.

We need to focus on defending fairness in majority of sports where biology matters or we will look like bigots.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 27/04/2022 15:39

And hand size

Floisme · 27/04/2022 15:39

Snooker really isn’t my thing but, having attempted to play on a full-size table, I am not convinced that height and arm reach are insignificant.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 27/04/2022 15:38

Surely strength also makes a difference in snooker?

TeenPlusCat · 27/04/2022 15:34

Well that's it, I'm unsure how I feel about it.
There definitely isn't a physical risk or disadvantage (part from as I said potentially height or reach).

But there must be some kind of social disadvantage that the women's competitions are trying to overcome? Otherwise they wouldn't have them?
So if someone who was raised male didn't have those disadvantages, is it fair they take the place of someone else?

OP posts:
MayorDusty · 27/04/2022 15:32

Money is a huge factor.
Many of the women players also have to work or have childcare/ caring responsibility plus no sponsorship.

JustALittleHelpPlease · 27/04/2022 15:29

To be honest I think you're reaching a bit here. Snooker is one activity that probably shouldn't be segregated by sex (or gender for that matter). There is definitely an issue that girls are less likely to take it up however that is a different issue and it has been great to see female referees at almost every session of every big tournament in recent years.

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