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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

husband called me a terf 😡

163 replies

3kidsandcounting2022 · 24/04/2022 16:20

Dd 8 had always preferred playing with boys and most of her interests aren't things her other peers dont like or understand. She has been saying she wants to be a boy for a while now and my response is that she can't be and she cant wear and play with what she likes.
She wears clothing from the boy section and she can play with anything she wants. Anyway dh is under the impression that she is transgender and we need to support her with it.
Long story short we had a massive row that ended in him calling me a terf.
I honestly dont know what to do :(

OP posts:
Discovereads · 24/04/2022 19:17

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 19:01

‘Transgender: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth.’

And gender identity is?

Gender identity definition:
”a person's internal sense of being male, female, some combination of male and female, or neither male nor female”

There are over 50 options beyond "male" and "female" for users to describe their gender identity, from "gender questioning" and "neither" to "androgynous."

oh, and if you are unsure as to the definition of any other words here is a link to the Merriam Webster dictionary:
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

CatSpeakForDummies · 24/04/2022 19:16

It's cruel to promise the impossible, it's easy, lazy parenting where the credit falls on the parents and the consequences fall on the child.

We don't tell children with disabilities it will magically fix, their mental health is better if there is acceptance and moving on. This is no different. He'd be daddy popular telling his disabled child that of course they'll walk again. Who is that actually good for?

Discovereads · 24/04/2022 19:14

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 19:00

Discovered:

I don’t think that, sorry. An adult can transition legally but a child can’t (although they might have the protected characteristic because they propose to transition). And I don’t believe there is any such innate state as ‘trans’. I believe (respectfully) that it is something you do, not something you are.

Again, you don’t have to transition to be transgender. I am not saying children can transition, just that they can be transgender.

Sunflower987 · 24/04/2022 19:11

I think it's cruel to tell children they can change sex.
From watching stories of detransitioners when they grow up, they feel the same.
They were sold a lie.

Helleofabore · 24/04/2022 19:01

Pieceofpurplesky · 24/04/2022 16:34

You need to support your daughter - don't tell her she can't be something or she will push even more! Don't have these arguments in front of her either.
Tell your daughter you support her but that she is a long way from having to make a decision and for now do as she is doing - driving a wedge between you will have the opposite effect and push her in to more drastic measures.
Your husband will also cause her damage if he goes down his route of transgender. You need to be working together for your daughter whatever your beliefs.
I am a teacher and we have a lot of kids saying they are trans - but half change their minds as they get older.
As hard as it is, for now, you have to be supportive, together

I disagree. It is important to be truthful here. Not one person on this earth can change sex. OPs daughter needs to know this.

listen to the female detransitioners who transitioned thinking they could ‘change sex’ or even feel male and then realised they couldn’t and then had to deal with the ramifications. Because they had been led to believe things that were not in fact, achievable.

It starts here.

It starts with the statement that it is impossible to change sex. It starts with helping her to understand she doesn’t have to change sex to do things she wants to do. And if she wants to dress in stereotypical boys clothes and have a ‘boys’ haircut, she can certainly do this.

I told my mother numerous times I wanted to be a boy, she was honest and told me I couldn’t. But she didn’t stop me dressing how I wanted to or doing the things I wanted to do (would be considered ‘boy’ things by today’s standard.).

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 19:01

‘Transgender: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth.’

And gender identity is?

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 19:00

Discovered:

I don’t think that, sorry. An adult can transition legally but a child can’t (although they might have the protected characteristic because they propose to transition). And I don’t believe there is any such innate state as ‘trans’. I believe (respectfully) that it is something you do, not something you are.

Discovereads · 24/04/2022 18:56

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 17:32

‘I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know.’

No child is trans. Transition is something adults decide to do because it makes them feel more comfortable (usually because of severe distress). Whatever else she is, she is absolutely not (currently) transgender.

A minor (legal child) can be trans, I know several teenagers who are. Again, trans doesn’t necessarily mean you will transition as an adult. Many trans people do not transition because they do not identify as the opposite gender, but are non-binary. I agree 9yo is too young to know for sure, but it cannot be ruled out.

StopStartStop · 24/04/2022 18:56

She's a girl. As such she's entitled to be interested in whatever interests her, style her hair as she wants it, wear whatever she's comfortable in.

Explain to her about chromosomes. XX cannot become XY, ever. Mention that some people try to change their bodies to fit in with their preference to be the opposite sex, but that causes health problems and, sadly for those who want it, can never succeed.

And gently introduce some feminist concepts. Most of all, don't panic. If you're calm and practical, she always has somewhere to come with her thoughts.

Pieceofpurplesky · 24/04/2022 18:55

Tabby and Really I agree, my point was to not tell her she can't be something so directly she will no doubt argue. That argument is for when she is much older than 8. My DS at 8 wanted to be an astronaut - I didn't say no, let him dress as one etc. He grew out of it and the OPs DD may too.

I was just trying to point out that's it's a red rag to a bull with most kids when you say they can't be something.

botanicalart · 24/04/2022 18:54

Ask him to listen to Benjamin Boyce on youtube. Lots of information and interviews from people who made the change.

Discovereads · 24/04/2022 18:54

Terfydactyl · 24/04/2022 17:30

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know

Do we have a definition of trans now? I've not seen one.

Yes there is a definition.
Transgender: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth.

Somanysocks · 24/04/2022 18:48

I'm sick of all this trans, non binary crap. She is a tomboy, a tomboy, it's normal, she doesn't have to be girly and like girly things it doesn't make her trans.

Why are so many people jumping to this trans conclusion, it has become a sickness in the world. Brainwashed.

I'm so angry and children's lives are being ruined as they look to adults to guide them but they're being lied to. It feels like a parallel nightmare of a world.

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 18:26

‘You need to support your daughter - don't tell her she can't be something or she will push even more!’

What if she thinks she’s a pony?

Some things are impossible. She will never be male. When she is grown up she can - if she wants - live as she thinks a male might live.

Reallyreallyborednow · 24/04/2022 18:22

You need to support your daughter - don't tell her she can't be something or she will push even more!

eh? A person cannot change sex. Doesn’t matter who tells them they can or can’t, or how much they push for it, they will always be female.

ExMachinaDeus · 24/04/2022 18:14

So your husband believes in sexist stereotypes? He’s the bigot, not you

Even after a century of women’s liberation, it’s still quite logical for girls to see where the fun and the power are in this world. Boys still dominate classrooms and playgrounds and so on and on.

So no wonder little girls want to be boys.

ask your husband if he believes in deeply old fashioned and sexist stereotypes. That might get him thinking?

doublemonkey · 24/04/2022 18:13

3kidsandcounting2022 · 24/04/2022 16:52

Dh is a great father and he has only started to look into transgender recently. Both of us only want what's best for her. He honestly believes that telling her she can change sex with older is in her best interests. For context his older brother was pretty much abandoned by their parents due to being gay so i think part of him doesn't want to repeat mistakes.

Firstly, tell him lots of girls feel this way - it doesn't mean they're trans.

Secondly, tell him that lots of lesbians feel this way. If he is supportive of gay people then he should understand to leave your daughter alone and let her find out about herself in her own good time.

dapsnotplimsolls · 24/04/2022 18:05

It might be worth finding out what they're being taught at school.

DomesticatedZombie · 24/04/2022 18:00

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know. Your job as parents is to educate her about what is trans, what that may mean for her and her options in terms of how she identifies.

So, only she can know what trans is, yet it's her parent's job to educate her?

How does that work?

Georgeskitchen · 24/04/2022 17:42

Remember that prehistoric term TOMBOY? nobody thought these girls were really boys . They just thought they naturally enjoyed playing with the lads, short hair, trousers, rough and tumble.
Some of those girls grew up to be lesbians. Some didn't. Some never liked feminine clothes/pursuits.
Some did.
Nobody, as far as I know, rushed them to a doctor for sex change hormones......

Crazylazydayz · 24/04/2022 17:33

I would show your husband p57 of The Interim Cass Review cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

The diagram shows all the possible outcomes.

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 17:32

‘I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know.’

No child is trans. Transition is something adults decide to do because it makes them feel more comfortable (usually because of severe distress). Whatever else she is, she is absolutely not (currently) transgender.

Beamur · 24/04/2022 17:32

This is also a very common part of many children's childhood. Exploring who they are.
No need to promise or expect anything in the future. Just let her find what she likes/wears/plays with. None of this makes her transgender. Many girls do not fit stereotypes of being female. Doesn't make them less female.
It's actually more like 80/90% of gender questioning children that desist.
Gender clinics and the whole affirmation protocols are being reviewed at the moment - look up the Cass report interim findings. Might make your DH pause in thinking this path is such a good idea. The experts are questioning it right now. Places such as Sweden which were treating and medicating children have recently said they're no longer going to do so. Leading trans surgeons in the US also saying publicly that maybe this isn't quite so rosy after all..
Frankly, be a terf if it protects your child from having the time and space to make up their own mind.

Terfydactyl · 24/04/2022 17:30

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know

Do we have a definition of trans now? I've not seen one.

nepeta · 24/04/2022 17:30

I climbed on barn roofs as a child and did all sorts of rather frightening stuff (carefully hidden from parents), played with boys but also with girls, was fully aware of the fact that boys were allowed to do more interesting stuff and were not required to do so much support work at home and I was angry about that.

But I never thought I was a boy. Perhaps today I would have been told that I am?

The confusion of sex roles and stereotypes with what a female person is looks extremely frightening to me.

We are rapidly going to 1950s gender roles for all who are unwilling to medically alter their bodies or to declare themselves as members of the very tiny group of non-binary (actual human beings). Everyone else will be assumed to be content with sexist gender roles.

I am sorry, OP, that your husband called you a TERF. Perhaps you could read what he wants you to read, and then he could read what you want him to read? I recommend Helen Joyce's Trans and Kathleen Stock's Material Girls.

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