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Original poster

MP for Caerphilly (Labour) - dreadful answer

58 replies

tabbycatstripy · 21/04/2022 08:17

When asked on Twitter, ‘What is a woman?’

“I’ve done casework for trans people who’ve faced incredible challenges in their lives. They deserve much better than trite questions like this. Life is complex. Deal with it.”

Do they really think condescending to women like this is going to work? “Trite”? “Life is complex”?

Detecting sex can be more complex than looking at the external body. We know people with DSDs exist. They are all male or female. There is no third or fourth sex.

But no, in this situation, life is not “complex”. Women exist, Hefin David. We are not males. Deal with it.

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SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 07/05/2022 08:39

But it feels a bit compelled. Choose your catechism: 'TWAW' or 'Human Adult Female'.

I don't get it. What you are saying is that stating biological facts is some kind of act of faith! You get asked the question, you know it is a current bugbear, you have an answer ready!

I ask my MP "what is a woman?" and he laughs and says that we both know the answer to that, a woman is a female and no, human beings cannot change sex. We need to protect all people from discrimination but being trans does not trump sex based protections.

My MP is a Tory, the usual Tory pillock, has thrown his hat into the leadership rign a couple of times. But he has never held any truck with the weirdness of TWAW. One of his previous office bods did, but that was a while ago and they have moved on!

Tritewelshlady · 06/05/2022 21:45

Philippa Marsden’s daughter was up for election too and did not win either.

I don’t think her loss was due to anything that has been discussed here. There have been other issues that residents have not been happy with.

She put a lot of effort into canvassing, but it goes to show that people do actually vote on matters that mean something to them and the community.

FemaleAndLearning · 06/05/2022 21:38

Thanks for the update that is great news!

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 06/05/2022 21:38

That is a damn shame.

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minsmum · 06/05/2022 21:18

Just to say that the Labour candidate who said it was not his area of expertise did not win either, in fact none of them did.

Peregrina · 06/05/2022 21:01

Do you think that the seat loss was a direct result of the TWAW stance?

VestofAbsurdity · 06/05/2022 20:13

And she's lost her seat.

and Hero failed in the attempt to get one and I'm trying very hard not to laugh.

Gwenhwyfar · 06/05/2022 20:08

IGoWalkingAfterMidnight · 21/04/2022 09:02

You have to remember that Philippa Marsden is the current leader of the Labour led council in Caerphilly and her trans woman son (Hero Marsden) is campaigning for a seat as a local councillor. Not all Labour candidates are towing the party line.

And she's lost her seat.

Mandodari · 06/05/2022 20:01

Deal with it. Well, that's you told you uppity little madam.😁
What a total bellend he is.

Chersfrozenface · 06/05/2022 19:54

In the local council elections yesterday, Phillipa Marsden, erstwhile Caerphilly Council leader, lost her seat. She got 213 votes, her fellow Labour candidate got 182. The winners, two independent candidates, got 1,162 and 1,150 votes.

Marsden junior, Hero, came last, getting 482 votes, the other Labour candidate getting 738. The winners in that ward, three independents, got 1,877, 1,695 and 1,634 votes.

Glenthebattleostrich · 23/04/2022 18:19

@tabbycatstripy I actually bumped into my conservative candidate today while walking the dog and showed her the messages. She was appalled because 'no matter what your ambitions, leanings or opinions you don't get to choose people's questions'. and yes thats a quote from her. Off the record ahe muttered about bloody kids not understanding how life works!! She's an older lady who volunteered on the community before becoming a councillor and she only stood because she wanted to so something about a couple of local issues!

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 22/04/2022 11:08

But it’s also easy (and honest) to say (if this is what you think): “A man is an adult human male and a woman is an adult human female. That is the reality, and while there is also the possibility of changing your legal sex, it doesn’t alter biological sex. Separately, people can modify aspects of their physical sex - they might feel happier if they take cross-sex hormones or have surgeries. While this is perfectly legal, and for some people may result in greater contentment, it also does not change biological sex. We should respect adults in their choice to transition. There are, rightly, laws in place to prevent unnecessary discriminatory practices by institutions against people who transition. There are, also correctly, laws that protect those who do not believe that people can literally change sex. Private citizens in their private lives are not compelled to believe that the GRA can change a person’s actual sex, nor can they be compelled, in terms of their own interactions with institutions, to say they do.”

It’s not that hard.

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SolasAnla · 22/04/2022 10:40

PerkyBlinder · 21/04/2022 16:11

It’s difficult though also because of the existence of the GRA.

It’s not possible to answer truthfully without highlighting what a shambles the GRA is and how it’s that piece of legislation which has resulted in male bodied people locked up with females in women’s prisons.

The truthful answer is woman means adult human female but legally we recognise that men with a GRC are also legally classed as women and those male born people may retain their penis.

It's not difficult to explain what you just outlined.

The GRA is not the problem as males without GRC were placed in womens prisons. The GRA makes it more complex if a male has a GRC but the current system has some checks and balances. If the GRA was changed to the "Irish" model it would be an apply and automatically get a GRC.

What is difficult is that the politicians then has to take a position on how far should the legal framework go in treating a male as a female and a female as a male.

Ask a politician should a female with a GRC be placed in the general population of the Mens Prison. In Ireland the State would have no legal option but to follow the legislation and to place a female in the mens. The GRC means they have to be treated in law as men/males.
In the uk a female would have 2 PC and would be held in a womens prison.

The no debate is I would have to choose what is best for society as a whole at the expense of the individual or opt for the individual at the expense of society.
We elect politicians to act for the benefit of society as a whole and view for the individual as to be for corruption and disruption.

SolasAnla · 22/04/2022 09:17

Glenthebattleostrich · 21/04/2022 13:40

I asked my labour councillor candidate the same question and was told that the question was a poor choice so they wouldn't answer it.

The question is of poor choice.

That is an odd construction of words.

I would use a poor choice
I would read that as "of poor taste".

borntobequiet · 22/04/2022 09:08

I got a patronising, dismissive and annoying response when I emailed my constituency Labour Party. It implied (quoting Starmer) that asking such questions was being deliberately orchestrated in order to cause community disruption. They were condescending enough to “hope this helps”.. I told them, no.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/04/2022 07:59

Beamur · 21/04/2022 11:25

I don't really care if this question annoys MP's. That's kind of the point. Define what a woman is. Not what she isn't and not in a way that you shoehorn in men.
You can't sit on the fence on this issue.

Exactly. Oh dear, poor MPs being asked questions that expose the zero thought they have given to the issue before jumping on the Stonewall bandwagon.

Asking complex questions about single sex spaces will not cut through with the public like seeing an MP struggling to answer a question that a 3 year old finds easy.

Lowhum · 21/04/2022 20:36

MaggieMGill · 21/04/2022 09:55

Can you ask Mumsnet to amend your title - Hefin isn't the MP for Caerphilly, that is Wayne David, Hefin is the member of the Senedd.

Apart from that, this is typical of his attitude to constituents who disagree with him about anything, insult, dismiss and if on Twitter, block.

He can be an amazing champion of the local area, but can also be very condescending and rude if you do not accept his outlook. He blocked me on Twitter ages ago over a discussion on Welsh independence ages, so I haven't had to endure his witterings for a long time 😂

I agree Maggie. Hefin has been supportive of the community, but over recent years has been rubbing alongside a young, male, Labour activist (momentum bot) who is very vocal online and has been shouting TE*F for years. I imagine this has given him a bit of an ego boost that he has someone who looks up to him and has started repeating the same nonsense to keep up with the kids.

I would also imagine that he feels the pressure to conform to word salad as he has been campaigning with candidate Hero Marsden this week who is a TW. Hero is the child of the elected leader of Caerphilly CBC.

I can just imagine how he would get turfed out so fast if he had answered factually and truthfully.

PerkyBlinder · 21/04/2022 16:11

It’s difficult though also because of the existence of the GRA.

It’s not possible to answer truthfully without highlighting what a shambles the GRA is and how it’s that piece of legislation which has resulted in male bodied people locked up with females in women’s prisons.

The truthful answer is woman means adult human female but legally we recognise that men with a GRC are also legally classed as women and those male born people may retain their penis.

Childrenofthestones · 21/04/2022 16:10

OP perhaps it explains why Labour are losing 2-0 in the female leaders board.

ChopinBoard · 21/04/2022 14:48

The existence of people who cannot be easily categorised as male or female, because they have DSDs, does not mean that they are not one or other of the two sexes. Nor does it mean that any male or female can declare that they are the opposite sex and make it so. Not complex. No nuance required.

Do people who think of themselves as trans have a DSD that makes them really the opposite sex? No. DSDs are totally irrelevant and activsts who use them as human shields should be ashamed of themselves and should, to use their own terms, 'do better'.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 21/04/2022 14:14

‘Better than mine who said it's not his area of expertise’

Then laws aren’t his area of expertise because many of the laws he wants to pass/oppose will have considerations that relate to protected characteristics.

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Chersfrozenface · 21/04/2022 13:48

minsmum · 21/04/2022 13:45

Better than mine who said it's not his area of expertise

Not his area of expertise?

That's an "area of expertise", a man knowing what a woman is?

How has the human race survived this long, one wonders.

minsmum · 21/04/2022 13:45

Better than mine who said it's not his area of expertise

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 21/04/2022 13:42

Glenthebattleostrich

The more they behave like they get to decide what voters are allowed to know about their intentions before elections, the fewer votes they will get.

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