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Original poster

Work question: what is your gender identity?

40 replies

MintTeaLady · 20/04/2022 12:01

My work has asked us to complete diversity questions. The first one is “what is your gender identity?”. The options are: Female, Male, Non-binary, Genderfluid, Genderqueer, prefer not to say, and another gender not listed.

I am drafting an email to ask for an additional option that would allow those who not believe in gender ideology to choose one. The comparator in the later questions is “what is your religion or belief?” which offers “no religion”.

Would “no gender identity” be appropriate to add to the list of options for the first question?

Thanks

OP posts:
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OchonAgusOchonOh · 29/04/2022 12:37

Midlifemusings · 29/04/2022 11:44

I believe in gender identity and have no issue with them having that but I personally don't really have a gender identity and agree that no gender identity should be an option. For some people gender and how they express it is a big part of their identity and they should also have the option to tick the box that best suits them.

I usually just cross out gender and put sex if it is an option. On many forms you have a choose not to answer. I don't love this option as it is different from no gender identity but better than selecting a specific identity.

I thunk they should only have the option to put gender identity if it is relevant. So, for example, on a medical form sex is important information. However, gender identity may also be important in terms of knowing you need to consider your language when speaking to them and if they are on hormone treatment.

Midlifemusings · 29/04/2022 11:44

I believe in gender identity and have no issue with them having that but I personally don't really have a gender identity and agree that no gender identity should be an option. For some people gender and how they express it is a big part of their identity and they should also have the option to tick the box that best suits them.

I usually just cross out gender and put sex if it is an option. On many forms you have a choose not to answer. I don't love this option as it is different from no gender identity but better than selecting a specific identity.

BootsAndRoots · 29/04/2022 11:29

N/A should be an option.

Not Applicable fits quite nicely with Non-Binary too.

Cheesel · 29/04/2022 00:14

I really like PP's suggestion of N/A being an option. If I could tick a box saying the gender identity question is not applicable to me, that would sit really well with me.

MsFogi · 28/04/2022 23:23

I think that is a great idea OP, the more of us that do this when faced with such questions the better.

Original poster
MintTeaLady · 28/04/2022 22:57

I brought the form up with a few colleagues today and they agreed that all the fields should not all be mandatory. I do hope more people will email to complain about that. I had a great conversation about gender ideology with one (male) colleague in front of another who clearly didn’t have a clue what we were talking about. I’m hopeful he will now though!

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ChateauMargaux · 28/04/2022 22:45

It is OK to record the views of people who have a gender identity but to require everyone to declare one regardless of whether they wish to be defined by gender stereotypes is compelling them to declare something about themselves that is not true.

Prefer not to say is not the same as not identifing with gender stereotypes.

Thank you for taking a stand even if they have decided that inclusion does not include women who do not identify with gender stereotypes and women who believe that the reason for oppression of females is based on biology and that on a global scale, women cannot identify out of their oppression and that changing the definition of women or female will not change the causes of oppression and in fact will make it much more difficult to measure the progress towards ending the oppression of women. But you know that already!!

Original poster
MintTeaLady · 28/04/2022 22:20

@ItsNotMyName sorry for the delay. The summarised responses from the Inclusion team to my questions (which I realise aren’t all included in my original post) are:

  • The external diversity and inclusion organisation consulted was INvolve.
  • Justification of grouping trans, non binary and intersex together as gender dysphoria is also a medical condition like intersex. Disagreement with me that intersex is an outdated term.
  • Disagreeing that gender was listed as a protected characteristic in the FAQs rather than sex, but agreeing to change the wording to remove “protected”.
  • Justification that “prefer not to say” is sufficient instead of “no gender identity”. An apology that there is not an appropriate option for me to select (note I hadn’t written anything about my own personal views in the email) and an understanding of my concerns in relation to gender ideology. On the basis of external benchmarking and practices of other exercises, the company is comfortable that allowing people to identify their gender is appropriate.
I’m still awaiting a response from the Ethics team.
OP posts:
Original poster
MintTeaLady · 25/04/2022 21:23

@ItsNotMyName I did get a response and I’ll summarise it here tomorrow - it was pretty poor though. I have also raised it directly with the Ethics Partner. He acknowledged my email and said he would look into it but hasn’t replied formally yet.

OP posts:
FemaleAndLearning · 25/04/2022 21:18

It should be 3 questions.

  1. What is your sex? Male or female
  2. Do you have a gender identity? Yes or no.
  3. If yes what is your gender identity. List as long or short as they like with prefer to self identify.
ItsNotMyName · 25/04/2022 20:35

@MintTeaLady I was just wondering if you'd had a response to your email? I've received the same invitation to provide diversity info. I've sent a query and received a bit of a rubbish response - saying that they need to limit the number of responses and they'll make a note of feedback for future reference. I was wondering if you'd had any more luck...?

BruceAndNosh · 20/04/2022 17:35

"whichever one gets me the best salary"

PonyPatter44 · 20/04/2022 17:08

On Civil Service application forms the question about gender is mandatory, there is no way to avoid it or to put a free test answer. Its just a drop down list. Its very annoying.

SiobhanSharpe · 20/04/2022 16:20

MidCenturyClegs · 20/04/2022 15:09

Our company did this last year (asked for gender identity and not sex) and then proceeded to provide their 'gender pay gap' reports to data.gov based on the former and not the latter.

That's disgraceful. And one of the many things I am concerned about. Is there any way you could dob them in?

Original poster
MintTeaLady · 20/04/2022 16:15

Thanks all. I’ve sent the email, including that there are various options that could be added to express a lack of belief in gender ideology.

Let’s see if I get a reply!

OP posts:
Cailin66 · 20/04/2022 15:50

"I don't have a gender identity but my sex is female".

That's an excellent idea as a response in these types of surveys.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 20/04/2022 15:34

We had this at work. They asked for gender with a word salad of options so I wrote to them saying that legislation states there are 3 genders - male, female and transgender so if they are collecting data on gender this is all they should use (I'm in Ireland so our equal status act refers to gender). I also stated that if they are trying to improve gender balance (we are after multiple court cases) they need to collect data on the 3 genders listed in legislation.

I got a blah, blah, thank you for feedback, consider it etc but there is no chage.

I've had a few of these questionnaire recently that I have wanted to complete so I went with the other option and stated "I don't have a gender identity but my sex is female".

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/04/2022 15:25

n/a option

EliyanahM · 20/04/2022 15:21

Saying no gender . Well there's a gender identity they already made up for that..

LeniGray · 20/04/2022 15:20

We had one of these surveys sent out to all staff, as the company wanted to improve inclusion and diversity, etc. Not all questions were mandatory though, so I completely skipped the gender identity and sexual orientation questions. A significant number of staff didn’t even respond to the email at all, it was voluntary.

MidCenturyClegs · 20/04/2022 15:18

tabbycatstripy · 20/04/2022 12:48

I actually think my objection would be different. These are deeply personal questions. Your employer is overstepping whether or not you believe in gender identity. I would respond with a polite, ‘I consider these questions very intrusive and not relevant to my job performance. I will not be sharing this information.’

I think "Prefer Not To Say" was included as an option, so your objection may be seen as being invalid.

MidCenturyClegs · 20/04/2022 15:09

Our company did this last year (asked for gender identity and not sex) and then proceeded to provide their 'gender pay gap' reports to data.gov based on the former and not the latter.

Pyewhacket · 20/04/2022 15:08

Straight in the bin when I get ono of those.

Chersfrozenface · 20/04/2022 15:04

drspouse · 20/04/2022 14:11

I use GDPR for work and you CAN collect information that isn't a protected characteristic (obviously, since otherwise you wouldn't be able to collect job title/shoe size/do you want your coffee black or white) but some categories are special categories and require additional checks. "Gender identity" isn't listed in the ICO list:

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/lawful-basis-for-processing/special-category-data/

Gender reassignment may be included if it reveals anything about a person's health (including mental health, I'd imagine)

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/special-category-data/what-is-special-category-data/

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They're not asking about gender reassignment, though. They're asking about "gender identity". "Gender identity" is not mentioned on either of the pages linked to above.

They might be able to ask "Have you had legal gender reassignment?" or "Do you have a Gender Recognition Certificate?"

And answering even legitimate equality monitoring questions is entirely voluntary. See ACAS www.acas.org.uk/employer-decision-protected-characteristic/equality-and-diversity

Artichokeleaves · 20/04/2022 14:23

Agree with pp. Something along the lines of 'I am an atheist regarding gender ideology'.

(And will politely be not participating in genuflecting at that particular altar.)

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