A simple way to explain to DH why he shouldn't* include pronouns on his email signature at work

For me it signals that you believe that gender identity is more important than biological sex. Given the swathe of evidence proving the disadvantage that women suffer it also, therefore, to me signals that you are not interested in redressing the balance and/ or that you have a limited grasp of science. To me it signals someone who is not interested in equality issues rather just interested in looking like they are at superficial glance.

Even worse, we were forced to watch about 5 hours of videos from the Trans trainer where they told us all these details about themselves, and then we had to do a quiz, where it would be like “transition means…” and the correct option was “it’s none of your business whether someone is trans or how they transition.” Literally the answer to half the questions were “it’s not your business.” So why are you telling me for hours about your transition, sexuality, etc.?

What other group would make you take hours of training and then be like “why are you so obsessed with us?”

There was about a half hour video on pronouns and how we should practice “removing binary language from our every day.” Ridiculous.

Does anyone recall comparable EDI training that asserts the impact of (say) preferred communication styles such as:
—culturally insensitive microaggressions
—ignorance about how to be accessible to a deaf person
—indifference to accommodations for someone with cognitive/learning disabilities
—a limited range of languages
—an absence of plain language, audio as well as text versions
is a matter of LIFE OR DEATH?

Putting pronouns in an email is the equivalent to putting the trans flag on there. Your DH then becomes an advert for an ideology that shits all over women.

Does he see ‘no harm’ in becoming an advert for that ideology?

In Lia Thomas smashing women’s sporting records? (While also walking around a changing room with an erection on display?)
In women and girls being told their boundaries don’t matter?
In women self-excluding from rape crisis centres?
In women being raped on hospital wards and being told it didn’t happen because there were ‘no men’ there?
In women being assaulted in prisons by male prisoners?
In children being pushed down medical pathways to alter their bodies to fit stereotypes about the opposite sex?

He sees no harm at all in any of those things?

As I learned in work training, we don’t say “preferred“ pronouns because it’s not a matter of preference it’s LIFE OR DEATH.

JKR, has posted a Vaclav Havel thread that perfectly captures why this is compelled speech that is likely endured through fear rather than for any belief in a value for others other than a signal of our fear and compliance.

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1516793678265827333?s=20&t=zoNQwQziZIj2MNsNqVzZaQ

in response to Dr Em's tweet.

It feels like TWAW as a mantra and cancelling women over accusations of transphobia was intended to test loyalty over reason and will she stand up to power or at best turn a blind eye to save her own skin. Does she value career advancement or doing the right thing?

twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1516758470313271299?s=20&t=zoNQwQziZIj2MNsNqVzZaQ

Havel describes this so well. I like this section (6/12 quoted by JKR):

Let us take note: if the greengrocer had been instructed to display the slogan "I am afraid and therefore unquestioningly obedient;' he would not be nearly as indifferent to its semantics, even though the statement would reflect the truth.

My only addition would be from Solzhenitsyn:

And the simplest and most accessible key to our self-neglected liberation lies right here: Personal non-participation in lies. Though lies conceal everything, though lies embrace everything, we will be obstinate in this smallest of matters: Let them embrace everything, but not with any help from me.

honestyculture.com/alexander-solzhenitsyn-live-not-by-lies/

I suppose that when TRAs say that stating your pronouns is 'supportive of trans people', what they really mean that it's a way of proving that you believe TRA ideology, rather than that it actually helps real trans people in your workplace in any real or meaningful way.

This 100%.

I use preferred pronouns on my work email and have been told by a few people that when others do this, it makes them feel supported and accepted.

So some of your colleagues who believe in the gender ideology find it supportive that you state your pronouns? How about the people who don't belive in gender ideology? Do they not deserve to feel supported and accepted?

OP - I think the best advice I've seen on this, as well as all the good advice on this thread, is that it's a political position, and it's rude and impolite, as well could be considered a coercive tactic or harassment on the part of an employer to coerce employees to reveal such a personal aspect of their lives in their corporate emails.

I mean, there are 9 characteristics in the Equality Act, one of them being Religion.

I wouldn't put my email signature as:

Kind regards,
'Hateful Haberdashery,
Christian, Voted Brexit'

or: Hateful Habbers,
'Remainer, Muslim',

so why do I need to put pronouns?

Maybe you could do with reading case law? The EAT’s decision in Maya Forstater's case last year made clear ‘gender critical’ views are protected under the religion and belief provisions in s.10 EqA, and an individual's lack of belief is to be protected as well, insofar as is reasonable possible.

Compelling others who don't believe in a nebulous gender identity to use preferred signatures in their emails is compelled speech, and could be considered harassment under the Equality Act, as well as showing disregard for others in the workplace with other beliefs & separate characteristics.

As Akua Reindorf notes in this ELA report:

"In the meantime, employers should perhaps start by considering whether their diversity and inclusion training adequately takes account of belief as a protected characteristic, and whether the definition of harassment in their policies is sufficiently nuanced to take account of the range of protected beliefs on sex and gender.

They should also think carefully about the extent to which their publicly expressed corporate values and their internal communications serve, in effect, to compel adherence on the part of their workers to one side of the debate or the other."

Why is it useful? How would it affect your work-related email conversations if someone thought you were a different gender to the one you think you are?

So you are happy with compelling and controlling other people's speech? How very reactionary.

It is most often used for neopronoun owners (people who are using very rare pronoun sets that are relatively rare in English or whatever language is being used). But limiting it to that is also problematic.

For example, if I need people to say "Please tell Serena pee will have to take per books back to the library perself as I'm not sure which ones are pers" but my friend Obi needs people to say "Please tell Obi pee will have to take pear books back to the library peaself as I'm not sure which ones are pears" then you can easily see how I would have to have my pronouns listed out as "pee/per/pers/perself" while pee would have pears listed out as "pee/pear/pears/peaself" or everyone will be confused and constantly risking being heard to use the wrong pronoun. Obvi!

BUT: the more popular - we shouldn't say "standard", as that might be normative - pronouns work on a similar principle. Even though we know "most" people who use she also use /her/hers/herself, it's just the right thing to do to write it all every time so that if there's anyone out their that uses say she/shear/shears/shearself, that person won't be singled out for shear vulnerable minority status.

My workplace was taken over by a bigger, NHS based organisation and the new corporate overlords decided we should include pronouns in our email signature, if we felt comfortable doing so.
I don't, so I didn't. No one has asked. I often email people and don't know their sex because they have names I'm not familiar with or that could be either, it doesn't make any difference to our conversations.

Adding preferred pronouns to your email signature / LinkedIn profile is ultimately saying that you support Lia Thomas for smashing women's national swimming records.

Yes, this really gets me too!
It's like - do we also have to clarify how the third person is conjugated?

The logical thing would be to say 'I go by female/male/neutral' pronouns.

This 100%.

I'd love to know why. Because my experience is that 99% of the pronouns I see on emails/bios match the sex of the person. And the other 1% are they/them. The trans people I work with don't have any in their signatures.

It's like 90% of people putting 'straight' in their bio with a few 'bi' and saying it's supporting gay people. How exactly?

Or people putting 'abled' there. How is that supporting people with disabilities?

Exactly. I suppose that when TRAs say that stating your pronouns is 'supportive of trans people', what they really mean that it's a way of proving that you believe TRA ideology, rather than that it actually helps real trans people in your workplace in any real or meaningful way.

Like if you said “I go by she” would anyone then be like “can you pass she she’s handout.” As if suddenly we wouldn’t understand how to use her without it being included. I know it’s a small thing, but it’s silly.

I already said “I’m not talking about she/they.” The general expected format is “they/them/theirs,” “she/her,” “he/his” whether or not you use mixed pronouns or neo pronouns. My point is, why can’t we just say “I use she pronouns.” When did we all have to say “I use she/her/hers” as if it would decline any other way. It’s pointless, and just another thing we’re supposed to do without questioning.

I reminded my DH that being a woman at work still matters and being pressured to draw attention to that fact is not a good idea. By participating in the pronoun signature, he is putting pressure on women to make that statement as well, to draw attention to themselves and invite discrimination.

I don't include my pronouns on work emails because it is objectively disadvantageous to be identified as a woman at work.

Same day he includes his star sign or religion as it has the same relevance

Like isn’t “she” enough by itself? Why is it she/her (or sometimes she/her/hers)

Because there are people (usually NB) who switch between plural and singular. E.g., they/her or he/they.