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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Highgate School tells pupils "Modern feminism is ‘racist’ and only focuses on ‘straight, white, middle-class women’"

112 replies

ResisterRex · 18/04/2022 17:32

It has emerged that Highgate School held a forum on anti-sexism, in which pupils were told:

  • feminism only focuses on white, middle-class women
  • to assess how privileged they are
  • that others are worse off - especially trans victims
  • that LGTBQ+ are more likely to be victims of child sexual abuse.

The forum was held to respond to the fact it was featured in Everyone's Invited. It seems that their response has been to ignore what was said about the school and what girls experienced, and tell them they’re not the real victims. Private school or not, parents decide where their kids go to school. Children don’t make those choices.

Anyone know where evidence is for the line about LGBTQ+ being more likely to be victims of CSA is from?

The school’s response was ill-informed, for example the “case by case” line which is wrong as per the EHRC guidance:

“We know that girls and women are disproportionately affected by sexual harassment and violence and LGBTQ+ people are more likely to experience child sexual abuse and less likely to report sexual abuse than their peers.
“If or where tensions exist or are perceived to exist between two or more protected characteristics under the Equality Act (2010), we will do everything that we can - on a case-by-case basis - to ensure that safeguarding every child in our care remains at the heart of what we do here.
“We continue to follow our safeguarding procedures, offer support to all of our pupils, and be led by the guidance of the DfE, local authorities and the police, where applicable. We remain committed to working in close and transparent partnership with our pupils, their parents and carers, staff, and alumni.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/18/modern-feminism-racist-focuses-straight-white-middle-class-women//_

This whole thing has echoes of this thread:

The word 'woman' is misogynistic, racist and transphobic, apparently.
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4532660-The-word-woman-is-misogynistic-racist-and-transphobic-apparentlyy_

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
ResisterRex · 20/04/2022 10:03

@EmpressoftheMundane

I should have thanked @ResisterRex 😳

im not used to the tweaked layout yet!

I'm also struggling with it!!
OP posts:
Slothtoes · 20/04/2022 09:56

I’m really glad that Polly Vernon is writing about this to keep it on the agenda. I don’t think she fundamentally gets ‘feminism’ based on that one article but maybe it’s over edited or maybe she’ll show up here and stay for the chat. I hope so. Times journalists who do get it can really make a difference. Her article says:

‘Equally, I have plenty of issues around modern feminism. It’s a while, actually, since I’ve even called myself a “feminist”, so righteous, proscriptive and in-fighty is the scene these days, so fired up on Twitter fury and faction. I’d agree that the face of that feminism, the voices dominating it, are largely white and middle class, and that has serious limitations. But I’m also entirely capable of seeing the impact of feminism beyond those it serves on social media.’

Polly Vernon then approvingly cites the government’s recently legislating of telemedical abortion to become permanent as a win for feminism. Which it certainly was.

However I’d also personally call it a win for feminists (the ones that she claims to think are self-servingly scrapping it out all day on Twitter). I would say that, having lobbied for that legal change alongside a lot of other women and not used Twitter once, but hey whatever.

What’s odd about this point is that Polly Vernon also doesn’t mention that the government OPPOSED this change. The change to keep it permanent was only made thanks to the MPs of all parties who defied the government position.

The government position was to require women seeking abortion to resume travelling more than once to a specific premises to take their medication based on a law that predated safe early medical abortion. The government wanted to put those barriers to early access to treatment back up for all women, knowing full well that it would impact most on the most economically and socially vulnerable women. because feminists told them about that.

So Polly Vernon’s quite correct that removing these barriers has helped some of the least privileged women, something my Tory MP made quite plain he couldn’t give a fuck about when talking about his intentions and then voting with the government against it.

I’m a bit curious how she first became aware of this important fact about which women stand to benefit most from this practical legal change though. Can’t possibly have have been from the self serving all middle class all white Hmm Feminists making that point repeatedly in the public domain, obviously.

Absolutely there’s crucial discussions to have about race and culture and feminism as there absolutely is about race and culture across the whole of society. We need to talk.
But I don’t think damning feminists as all white and all middle class is accurate, or helps us get to a place where women can be with each other freely and be active on their issues.
Or freely set up their own things to organise on issues they want to campaign for separately and specifically- which is also great.

I’m very suspicious of how often feminists are described as one identical blob. Also suspicious of how feminists are criticised for not having sorted out everyone else’s issues before they’re ‘allowed’ to campaign on their own issues.

Nobody needs permission to organise. The enforcers of the patriarchy (usually men but not exclusively) should be getting the bile for constantly creating the shitty conditions that feminists constantly need to fight against.

Feminism whatever it is, is just women saying things, almost always unpaid and in their own time and at their own cost in different ways. It’s not a force of nature that automatically happens regardless like the sun or rain. If only!

capncrunch · 20/04/2022 09:26

I've been following libsoftiktok on twitter and it's shown that lots of gay teachers are groomers too.

The protection of children is my primary focus.

user1471504747 · 20/04/2022 09:10

Sorry weird glitch on the new site it looked like the thread only had one page. Haven’t read the full page but I’m sure posters said the same as me 100 times over!

user1471504747 · 20/04/2022 09:10

Disappointing they’ve lumped LGBT together when it comes to CSA. It makes it sound like being abused makes you gay.

It would be far more impactful to separate the stats for LGB vs T. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that a disproportionate number of transmen had experienced CSA.

I also think there are very real issues with racism within feminism, and linking it in to LGBT doesn’t help. Again they’re very separate issues. It’s also nowhere near as simple as the school have made it sound, and when you dumb such nuanced issues down it loses all impact

Clymene · 20/04/2022 09:03

That's a good article. This is very much 'oh look there's a squirrel!' isn't it? Both the way Highgate has dealt with this and many posts on this thread.

A lot of people are very invested in creating and exploiting schisms between women of different races. It's very blatant.

EmpressoftheMundane · 20/04/2022 08:52

I should have thanked @ResisterRex 😳

im not used to the tweaked layout yet!

EmpressoftheMundane · 20/04/2022 08:50

Thanks for sharing @Igneococcus I found it a good read.

ResisterRex · 20/04/2022 08:47

@ResisterRex

There's a great comment under here:

"The forum appears to be just the usual racist homophobic gaslighting from the trans lobby to suggest that brown, black and lesbian women aren't treated like women, the same as transwomen aren't. The difference is that transwomen are men and so don't qualify as women.

Feminism, the fight to retain women's rights and against sexism seems to be largely led by lesbians at the minute with women from ethnic minorities like Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Allison Bailey etc.

If you want to know what white and middle class looks like in the UK then try the trans lobby."

I meant to quote @Igneococcus. It's from that article, from her post:

There is an article by Polly Vernon in the Times today. I have't actually read it (crazy workload this week) just putting it here for anybody who wants to read it:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0e716fae-bff5-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc?shareToken=f1ab7f436c6760c5c8fb242b13aa66b3

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Slothtoes · 20/04/2022 08:40

I agree that (if reports are true and we’ve not been given any facts yet so who knows) this looks very much like girls (of any race) being silenced about sexual abuse and rape from other male pupils at school, which of course is very convenient outcome to the business of the school.
There’s an urgent need to tackle racism and sexism at schools but the first step in a school like this with reported peer on peer rapes, surely has to be teaching about consent and enforcing safeguarding process and culture at school, both of which are fundamental knowledge for every child of whatever ethnicity and culture, to be armed with. I am saying that only on the assumption that these schools have already completed the work of making sure their processes for reporting and documenting reported abuse and processes for sanctions and involving the police and other external agencies are up to date and appropriate and that staff have been properly trained how to use them and that kids know they exist.

ResisterRex · 20/04/2022 08:30

There's a great comment under here:

"The forum appears to be just the usual racist homophobic gaslighting from the trans lobby to suggest that brown, black and lesbian women aren't treated like women, the same as transwomen aren't. The difference is that transwomen are men and so don't qualify as women.

Feminism, the fight to retain women's rights and against sexism seems to be largely led by lesbians at the minute with women from ethnic minorities like Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Allison Bailey etc.

If you want to know what white and middle class looks like in the UK then try the trans lobby."

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capncrunch · 20/04/2022 08:01

Alison Bailey has raised over £500k crowdfunding from so called 'racist' feminists and JKR invited her to her lunch.

To call MN feminists racist is absurd.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 20/04/2022 07:56

I think the point of that comment is to pretend to be an FWR regular and do a version of “I have a black friend”.

Dave Chapelle did a comedy show a while back where he allegedly made fun of trans people. This caused huge demonstrations and he had one film (about Covid I think) cancelled. He subsequently made a follow up where he asked people to really listen to the jokes he made. He stated that he at all points were comparing trans people with black people and said that if trans people were black, things would look very different. He also made the point that he felt that he finally had come to a time where black men occasionally could stand up to white men - only for them to identity as women and tell him that he couldn’t say anything.

he did all this in a very funny way and this was discussed at FWR. My understanding is that he usually can be sexist but to be honest, I haven’t watched that much of him. Sexist men are usually not admired at FWR (who would have thought) but many women here seem to be able to separate out an argument from a person. It is amazing how few people who seem to be able to do that.

Truer43 · 20/04/2022 07:43

Staffy1 · 19/04/2022 22:23

@ionlyhaveice4u

forget about feminists, they are racist anyway

That's simply not true, it was only a couple of months ago that everyone here was saying what a brilliant comedian Dave Chapelle was.

What is the point of this comment? If you think feminism is racist, give an example.

Dave Chapelle is black and very popular on FWR.

Igneococcus · 20/04/2022 07:42

There is an article by Polly Vernon in the Times today. I have't actually read it (crazy workload this week) just putting it here for anybody who wants to read it:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0e716fae-bff5-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc?shareToken=f1ab7f436c6760c5c8fb242b13aa66b3

maltravers · 19/04/2022 23:43

We should all be concerned about racism, but this smacks of identity politics “top trumps” where white heterosexual women are supposed to be cringing at the bottom. I don’t see TRAs needing to sort out racism before asserting their needs. Why are women expected to do this?

Staffy1 · 19/04/2022 22:23

@ionlyhaveice4u

forget about feminists, they are racist anyway

That's simply not true, it was only a couple of months ago that everyone here was saying what a brilliant comedian Dave Chapelle was.

What is the point of this comment? If you think feminism is racist, give an example.
ChateauMargaux · 19/04/2022 20:28

I have downloaded white tears brown scars as recommended above.. and will hold my thoughts on which sex was the main driver of racism until I have read it..

Staffy1 · 19/04/2022 20:21

@ResisterRex, thanks. Well that doesn’t give any reason for the conclusion, but I don’t suppose there is one.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 19/04/2022 19:47

Sigh

ionlyhaveice4u · 19/04/2022 19:34

forget about feminists, they are racist anyway

That's simply not true, it was only a couple of months ago that everyone here was saying what a brilliant comedian Dave Chapelle was.

KittenKong · 19/04/2022 19:33

It’s just another way to divide and conquor. Have women be suspicious of each other and deflect from the real issue. The SMT at that school need to have their heads examined. Stonewall?

MsGoodenough · 19/04/2022 19:26

Sounds like the premise of 'Against White Feminism' by Rafia Zakaria. A (white) teacher at my school has a display on her wall all about it....

ResisterRex · 19/04/2022 19:20

@Staffy1

I can’t read the link without signing up. Don’t suppose it explains how they came to those conclusions that it only focuses on white, middle class women?
The Mail has it if that helps:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10730869/Modern-feminism-focuses-straight-white-middle-class-women-private-school-pupils-told.html

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LittleWhingingWoman · 19/04/2022 19:19

@ResisterRex agree