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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women don’t know they’re women unless they test their chromosomes, says Stonewall

131 replies

ResisterRex · 17/04/2022 13:13

Telegraph article freely accessible at the link. It looks like more co-opting of intersex to forge ahead with getting to the point where gender identity trumps sex.

mobile.twitter.com/Obsolesence/status/1515379847580823559

From the article:

"The session began by setting out the definition for intersex people, who fall outside societal expectations of the male-female binary. Staff were told: “Most people do not have their chromosomes tested, so many of us don’t actually know what they are.”
It is widely understood that for the vast majority, males have XY chromosomes and females XX, a biological process of DNA in egg cells when fertilisation occurs, however, some intersex people can rarely have a mixture.
A source who attended the session, titled “First steps to LGBTQ+ inclusion”, said it was also discussed how intersex people, who form less than two per cent of the population, may have both sets of genitals. The session materials referred to “sex assigned at birth”, rather than birth sex."

And more on the silencing of those who understand and apply the real law:

"an HR worker at Bristol, told The Telegraph she had to write a letter of apology after trans activists on a staff equality committee walked out last year over her defence of the word “maternity” in university policies.
While the word ultimately stayed, she said she was subject to a three-month informal probe when staff complained about the “problematic” and “exclusionary” term and said she had been offensive by stating only biological women can give birth.
“There is a culture of fear on campus. Female professor friends and I are scared to even talk about women’s rights in public spaces near the university,” she said. “We speak in hushed tones looking over our shoulders.”"

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2023 09:29

InterestingUsernameTBC · 08/01/2023 17:46

I remember hearing that the Tavistock gender clinic used to test all their patients for chromosomal differences but they abandoned the practice because it never showed up anything unexpected.

Sibling was definitely chromosome tested (not at tavi). It didn't show anything unexpected. Neither did the brain scan nor any other test

Pretty sure they've never been screened for ADHD and autism mind. Which as time goes on and it becomes clearer there is a definite family history, seems a pretty huge oversight... Which actually my parents are slowing beginning to have something of an epiphany over for various different reasons.

Onnabugeisha · 09/01/2023 09:28

“Most people do not have their chromosomes tested, so many of us don’t actually know what they are.”

Interesting, because might actually have Elf DNA. It would explain my pointy ears and youthful good looks.

Onnabugeisha · 09/01/2023 09:27

Far right and far left groups can go so far that they end in a circle and become much the same.

Yes! I have thought this for years…that the political spectrum is actually a ring. Fascism, totalitarianism, censorship, human rights violations…all happen under far left AND far right.

PetersensArm · 09/01/2023 09:25

My chromosomes were known before I was even born, I guess my sex was 'assigned' in utero Hmm

Martialisthebestpup · 09/01/2023 09:23

Anyone who’s a (bio) parent can be pretty fucking sure they are right about which sex they are. And that’s a fair chunk of the population.

HootyMcboob76 · 09/01/2023 09:17

Helleofabore · 09/01/2023 08:56

It was a PBP, previously banned poster. And it might have been a group effort from what we can work out. The rapid fire responses are a giveaway pattern.

I see.
Reading back my (annoyed) post it was a response and reaction to so many threads just being "poofed" and disappearing. It's hard to know what we are permitted to discuss sometimes.
Thanks for the info.

Helleofabore · 09/01/2023 08:56

HootyMcboob76 · 08/01/2023 16:37

Hmm, seems the other thread about chromosomes has been deleted.
So we are not even allowed to discuss our FUCKING CHROMOSOMES now?

Must be transphobic.

It was a PBP, previously banned poster. And it might have been a group effort from what we can work out. The rapid fire responses are a giveaway pattern.

HootyMcboob76 · 09/01/2023 08:25

The true DSD figure is approx 0.018% of the population.
The figures have been VASTLY inflated by the "movement" to include things like PCOS and other things which are not DSDs.
By definition a DSD is present at birth, not something you acquire.

And the percentage of that 0.018% who have genitals so ambiguous that a doctor cannot tell if they are male or female is even smaller.

And ALL of them are still either male or female when karyotyped.

And the trans population has THE SAME incidence of DSDs as the rest of the population.

And people with DSDs have repeatedly said they do not appreciate being piggybacked with the trans community to prove some kind of point.

DSDs prove the sexual binary, they are sex specific.
It's really not the "gotcha" that the trans community thinks it is.

The refusal to use the newer and more scientific terms of VSD or DSD, and staunchly sticking to "intersex" is a deliberate ploy by the TRAs to attempt to blur the lines of sex, and somehow insinuates that some people are "hovering" between the sexes, and that "trans" is just another kind of real, provable and biological sexual disorder.

It's not.

For people who do the research, it's clear, but lots of people don't do the research.

FemaleAndLearning · 09/01/2023 00:08

tabbycatstripy · 17/04/2022 15:58

Intersex people are nowhere near 2% of the population. That is 1/50 people. The estimate I get from basic research online is 100th of that (1/5000 people).

Which, considering I’ve never met anyone who describes themselves in this way, and never come across anyone who says they were having sex with someone and they realised the other person had both a penis and a vagina, sounds a bit more feasible.

Obviously I realise people with DSDs might be likely not to tell others, or casually get naked, for privacy reasons. But if it was as common as 2% we wouldn’t even be talking about it, it would be a well-known and understood facet of human life.

The figure you quote is more realistic. Congenital heart disease is, I believe, the most common defect in babies affecting 1 in every 100 births. So 1 in 50 gas to be made up.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/congenital-heart-disease/

Wellies54 · 08/01/2023 23:21

Let's for a moment agree that transwomen are women. Let's accept Stonewall's suggestion that women should have their chromosomes tested to find out if they're women. I think some women may be shocked to discover that they are in fact... not women. 😱

SinnerBoy · 08/01/2023 18:40

Rightsraptor · 18/04/2022 12:33

Well no, you don't need to be a geneticist to know what sex is. But there are circumstances, such as arguing with idiots, when it helps.

My Gran told me often:

"Don't get into arguments with idiots, they're too stupid to know they've lost."

And, "It's like trying to teach a stone to fart."

Igneococcus · 08/01/2023 18:20

We have now sequenced so many human genomes - I know someone whose lab does about 60 every week (cancer research related) and they have done since NGS became available - that we'd have noticed by now if there were regularly people whose chromosome set doesn't match their observed sex (in the absence of DSDs). Or 23 and me and similar services might have noticed if there is a large subset of humans that doesn't follow the standard human chromosome complement. It's not like we are short of sequence data.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 08/01/2023 17:48

What utter nonsense. Can Stonewall not see how ridiculous they are being?

When oh when will all this dangerous claptrap stop!

InterestingUsernameTBC · 08/01/2023 17:46

I remember hearing that the Tavistock gender clinic used to test all their patients for chromosomal differences but they abandoned the practice because it never showed up anything unexpected.

ReunitedThorns · 08/01/2023 17:40

What Stonewall have said is true, but it is also true of men. So perhaps we go back to the old fashioned way of knowing the difference? The difference that every mammal (apart from TRAs) seems to know.

Igneococcus · 08/01/2023 16:59

Thanks@Ereshkigalangcleg that makes a lot more sense. I have a bad habbit of having loads of tabs open and sometimes several browsers.

HootyMcboob76 · 08/01/2023 16:45

PermanentTemporary · 08/01/2023 16:42

I'd imagine it's start a dumb thread, scrape for screenshots, report your own thread and disappear. Trolling Mumsnet is apparently a hobby these days for saddoes with personality disorders and shit lives.

Yes, I didn't think of that, you are most likely correct.
It's just a shame when a thread disappears for lots of reasons, namely when it beautifully shows up the TRAs for what a bunch of moronic dimwits they are, and also for a lot of good sound information that disappears along with the thread.
It's also irritating that the reasons given are so damn vague. HOW are we supposed to know what the transgressions (or should that be "trans" gressions) are if we are never told?

PermanentTemporary · 08/01/2023 16:42

I'd imagine it's start a dumb thread, scrape for screenshots, report your own thread and disappear. Trolling Mumsnet is apparently a hobby these days for saddoes with personality disorders and shit lives.

HootyMcboob76 · 08/01/2023 16:37

Hmm, seems the other thread about chromosomes has been deleted.
So we are not even allowed to discuss our FUCKING CHROMOSOMES now?

Must be transphobic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 15:38

@Igneococcus just seen this on Site Stuff, maybe less creepy explanation?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4689870-similar-threads-at-the-bottom-of-a-thread-leading-to-resurrection-of-zombiesnear-zombies

TheGreatATuin · 08/01/2023 11:37

I think the only response to that is " Don't be ridiculous".
It's all pseudoscience woo.
And they know it too. Its why they categorise "cis" women as a category different to "trans" women.
If they genuinely couldn't tell the difference or it was that complicated, they wouldn't be able to know which sex goes in which 'cisgender' box.

Rightsraptor · 08/01/2023 11:17

I do happen to know my chromosomes (XX if you're interested) but, strangely, I knew I was female even before I got the result.

Weird, huh?

Bestcatmum · 08/01/2023 11:15

Oh do go home Stonewall, you're drunk.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 08/01/2023 11:13

Fuck off, Stonewall.

Yrs, a non-chromosome-tested menopausal WOMAN.

Igneococcus · 08/01/2023 11:08

Yep, I might do that.