Girlguiding dilemma

If girl guides were to disappear or become officially mixed-sex because of all this, then that would feel like a massive loss for women and girls

GG is officially mixed sex now.
Or at least, it allows boys and men who self ID as female to join, which amounts to the same thing.
A man in trousers can't join but a man in a skirt can. Ridiculous.

I knew what you meant, OP. I've had my DD signed up since she was a toddler because the waiting lists are ridiculous here. She's now 5, so if a place were to come up, I'll be rethinking a lot. It's a shame because it otherwise looks like a good organisation.

I understand your concerns, but my DD has had a brilliant time with Brownies, Guides and Rangers.
I think they are mistaken with their stance on this issue, but think overall what GG provides for girls is great.
I think GG policies could put Leaders in tricky positions but I think you underestimate how often Leaders have to adjust and make plans to safeguard the children in their care. If you don't have confidence in the Leadership of any group you wouldn't leave your child in their care..
The proportion of activities that might touch on this topic are very small and you can withdraw your child from any session without consequences - it's not like school..

I'm a guide leader and this stuff doesn't get discussed at our meetings. It's never even been mentioned. Guide leaders are not teaching gender woo and all of them in my district completely disagree with girl guiding's gender inclusive policy.

I was a reluctant Brownie. My best friend joined and dragged me along with her.

I stuck it out for a few years, even made sixer but I was never a favourite of Brown Owl. She told me once that it was very wrong of me to not be christened .... how times have changed.

That said, I think let her join and see how she goes. She might not enjoy it even with her friends there.

My friend went on to Guides ... I didn't.

I wouldn't as much about the ideology, but I do care about safe guarding.
Young children/people (especially girls) based have no protection or safe spaces (nor do women - but we can hold our own a little easier than a young child).

Therefore how will you be able to protect her from predatory men? In some ways the over night camping/trips etc is easier because you can volunteer to go with them, but I'd be worried about the every week grooming that could be going on.

If I faced this dilemma I would probably volunteer (or my dh volunteer) for the group so I could keep my eye out for my child.

I put my daughter on the waiting list for Rainbows 2 years ago. She got in and I decided not to send her.

I don’t think it would be affected at that level at their age but the safeguarding concerns are just too much and if she progresses through the different levels I just wouldn’t trust what they’re being told

So it's Rainbows? That's hardly outing is it?

No one in Rainbows is teaching girls about gender ideology - most units are run by very conservative women. There is far more chance that she will learn about gender identities at school or on TV.

This is why this ideology has been allowed to erode womens rights so effectively.
People just bury their heads in the sand
It's no big deal until it actually smacks them in their face.

The issue isn't so much about it being pushed at the kids it's about SAFEGUARDING. The GG don't have any!

I agree with others that most leaders of individual units are highly unlikely to be pushing gender woo, especially at Rainbows age. I think they're just as likely to come across it from other areas (school, friends, TV, etc).

For me, weighing up the tiny risk of gender woo versus the risk of being left out of something her friends are doing, I would let her go. There will be many risks we have to weigh up for our kids, and I'm quite risk averse, but I think Rainbows is a low risk activity overall.

I do get your dilemma and others' reservations though

Do what will make your daughter happy

Mine goes, the leaders are all no-nonsense older lesbians so I'm not worried about our pack. No inter-pack sleepovers yet though. I guess I'll look at that when it happens.

‘If they can't get the big things right then they can't get the small things right.’

This.

I allowed my Ds to attend a group (not GG or Scouts) that was fully genderwoo, because he loved it and had friends in it, but I was very, very thorough about getting written confirmation that he would always be in single sex sleeping and washing spaces. I really spelt it out, no possibility of confusion with " single gender" (ie mixed) spaces.

If this is about rainbows, you are being ridiculous.

Wait till she goes to secondary school. Then the gender identity pressure will be coming from her peers not her guide leaders.

Just let her go for goodness sake. You are being ridiculous.

My girls are in brownies and guides. The local units are brilliant and the fact that they are single sex make a big difference to my daughters. If they start letting boys in, then I would have to think about whether it is worth them going. They are going on the overnight camps this year, as they are just with local units and leaders that I trust.

If girl guides were to disappear or become officially mixed-sex because of all this, then that would feel like a massive loss for women and girls (and probably a victory for MRA types). I don’t want to write it off yet. It would be so hard to re-establish.

My daughters have gone through from rainbows and now onto guides. I volunteer with the local brownie group (parent helper). The slightest whiff of gender-woo at grassroots level and I will take all three of us out of the organisation immediately. So far it has been fine, but I long ago decided it was better to monitor my local situation from within GG than outside. (The new brownie badge scheme is more akin to some ghastly management training programme, but that's a different topic altogether)

Exactly @Artichokeleaves!

'My group doesn't have any males in it'
the whole point is as a parent you wouldn't be allowed to be informed!
You would have no informed choice and any leader who gave you that choice would be breaking the rules and face disciplinary action.
You wouldn't know until it was too late.
Russian roulette with your girls safety

It's the 'here's a box of chocolates. Only one or two of them will poison you. So which one are you going to eat?' thing again.

They are ignoring a gaping hole - what else are they ignoring?
If they can't get the big things right then they can't get the small things right.

All you leaders who are ignoring the issue- you know this organisation doesn't have your back, that you will be thrown to the wolves if something goes wrong.

Just because the day to day running doesn't involve gender ideology doesn't mean it isn't a big deal.

How can you take your units to any event involving any other guide groups with this ridiculous policy?

Gi

At the end of the day we are here to support young people in what is an increasingly tricky world.

I disagree! The clue is in the name Girl guides!

There are plenty of another organisations that take both sexes. Leave the girl guides for just girls!

I would absolutely not let my daughter join Rainbows or Brownies or Guides. Not a snowball in hells chance.

If everybody left and nobody joined up maybe they'd have another look at their safeguarding policies, but by letting your daughter join you're agreeing to their principles!

As a PP mentioned it is very good for your daughter's development to have other social circles. Look at what else is on offer, pony riding, trampolining, gymnastics, dancing?

There is so much more on offer than an organisation where some poor young woman is going to be hurt in the very near future. It's a horror story waiting to happen and I would never ever be involved with it.

And I judge all who let their daughter go there!