Girlguiding dilemma

Oh, one thought was that you might get a better response if you make a new post asking for input?

AJNorthWest thank you. I've removed my daughter from Brownies and won't use the organisation until they sort this mess out and I know I can trust them with the wellbeing of my child.

I will message you.

I'm a Brownie leader and am currently having a dispute with Girlguiding. Many leaders don't know anything about self-ID, but if the situation arose they wouldn't get any support from volunteer support.

Here is where I'm at with it:

• I emailed my concerns in a comprehensive, rather extensive email
• They responded in a way that did not address any of my concerns, and gave me a scenario, a deadline to respond to that scenario and a threat of "taking things further" if I did not respond in time
• I spoke to a lawyer, Peter Daly (he has given me permission to share his name) who has dealt with this before, and he wrote an excellent response letter to the Chief Exec. Within that letter he pointed out their discriminatory behaviour towards me and my gender critical beliefs (as protected thanks to Maya Forstater). He asked them to answer lots of questions in relation to their response and their lack of response to my original concerns
• She has responded (admitting that the level of volunteer support I received was perhaps "not sufficient", which is a bit of an understatement. One of the things she said in her response was the suggestion of a one-to-one meeting with the Chief Commissioner for my region and the head of the Safe Practice Team

I have not responded yet to the Chief Exec. I plan on suggesting a meeting with herself, with not just me but with a group of leaders and parents who share the same concerns and have been palmed off with the same response. I think it is important that Girlguiding listen to our voices. I suspect their approach is to pick us off one by one, but a group may have a bigger impact. For this reason, they may not agree to meeting a group, but that would say a lot in itself.

So, if you have raised concerns and have been palmed off, if you've been too afraid to raise concerns for fear of you or your daughter being kicked out, if you are a leader, ex-leader or parent of a girl in Girlguiding and you would be interested in attending a meeting with me - please send me a private message. If you are not keen on attending a meeting but you'd still like your voice to be heard, please message me - maybe we could take some written statements with us as well.

Find another club.
I would tell DD and friends, she's doing swimming/dance/karate/football/drama/tutoring etc on that day. So can't make it. Never mind, she'll look forward to seeing them another time.

I don't know, instinctively I'd rather no one decided to get rid of their crown jewels, I mean I've never had one but what a step to take and what if they change their mind, like people have been known to do about stuff 🤣🤣🤣.

I've been reading about Katie Alcock. Very sensible woman.

I might be shot down for this but if you are born male and know you were born in the wrong body and should be female, and still keep your bits and pieces, it's wrong. Lia Thomas for example. And the cyclist Emily whatever their name is,. Sorry I am too lazy to look up the name. It's like they want their cake and eat it as well. Just be who you think you are meant to be.

Look at this. Goodbye Sam, Hello Samantha. Now they're Charles. So confusing.

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/top-london-lawyer-changed-gender-three-times/WOEMFCEM7VKWBMPSLM4GVCIMZQ/

Is there an opportunity for you to meet privately with the women who run the local GG group and express your concerns? I would hope that they would include women like Katie Alcock, who would use their personal judgment and not necessarily follow every diktat of GG HQ. My guess/ hope is that things will look very different in 2-3 years' time, when the Cass report has been published, Stonewall has been discredited, the GRA's been abolished, the NHS is being sued for sterilising young people and so on. I would hope to see U-turn in GG policies. So I might encourage my daughter to attend but be very clear at home that boys can't become girls and that she's to tell me if there's a boy in the group. And offer her the alternative of going to Scouts, where at least they are open about being mixed sex?

Guide Association settles with Katie Alcock www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4533836-guide-association-settles-with-katie-alcock

My daughter does scouts - no issues there. Separate boys and girls

Every time we asked our Brownies if they'd like it if boys were allowed to join the answer was an overwhelming No. Because boys spoil all the games and keep messing about being the two main reasons.

The whole ethos of GG from Rainbows to Rangers is to give girls a space away from Males.
To empower them. On a basic level there is nothing wrong with kids being mixed sex. But whatever your views something changes when a male enters a female only group. Social expectations are ingrained in everyone from a very early age. The very idea a boy can identify into a girls o my space shows the boy a massive sense of entitlement straight away. Their feeling has and wants override the girls.
The ethos is ignored for the boy.

The statistics on sex offences committed in schools, both primary & secondary age, are disturbing and should give every parent pause. So those saying mixed sex sleeping isn't a big deal need a wake up call.

It isn't just about the children - it's adult Leaders. This is an organisation where dads are actively discouraged from helping( I have more than a few dads who have told me that different groups refused them to be a parent helper on their meeting night). But say you identify as a woman and come on in.

GG can't have it both ways. It's a perfect example of the conflict of rights the 'be kind' movement invokes

As a mother, I'm not worried about prepubescent children sleeping in the same accommodation as much as I'm worried about who the adults are.

I no longer trusted these adults to be capable of making moral and common sense choices in a unsafe scenario. I was not interested in helping my daughter become a kneejerk wokeavist! I did not let my daughter go to Girlguiding after Brownies. It has been massively infiltrated at the top and is no longer fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

Hmm..it does say that! Their website is not the easiest to navigate.
My understanding is that Leaders do not sleep in the same tents, but some venues will not have completely separate areas so I guess this rule ensures that Leaders are never alone with Guides/Brownies at night

And actually when ‘trans people’ means confused kids in need of love and support I’m all in.

It’s the requirement to lie to parents and enable secret mixed sex sleeping accommodation that I object to.

It’s not perfect but it is progress.

Recognising the equality act is a start. Promising to keep evolving the safeguarding policy is also massive progress from where we were.

GG can be trans inclusive, but members need to be born female.

Girlguiding is also, and shall remain, a home for trans people.

So basically nothing's changed!

But I'm glad for Katie that it's over for her.

It'll be interesting to see what develops. It's certainly a good start.

Glad for Katie that she can draw a line under this, but the GG statement (presumably highly lawyered) doesn't mention preserving single-sex distinctions for girls

we agree that sex and gender are different, and will reflect this in the language we use.

YES!

Girlguiding recognises that gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act and that there are girls and volunteers who hold gender critical beliefs within our membership. We respect and value their right to do so, and to express those beliefs

YES!