Apparently female rape survivors 'need' mixed sex groups

@DomesticatedZombie

'To suggest that the value in women-only spaces lies solely or primarily in the exclusion of men significantly undervalues the inception, the purpose and the continuation of women-only spaces'

The choices are male-only space, mixed-sex space, and female-only space.

If special things for women happen in female-only spaces, that don't happen in mixed-sex spaces, then what would the crucial factor be?

Are they suggesting that we've all been using mixed-sex groups in the wrong way?

'Before we peppered the space with more exciting people, these rape survivor counselling sessions were just a bit meh'

they add amazing value to these spaces

I just can't get over that; it's such an odd and inappropriate thing to write.

It's surely to fuck not about whether someone's presence 'adds value' - it's supposed to be supporting survivors, fgs. Not providing a glittery, super special experience for anyone. To be frank, if I was a transwoman I'd be affronted at that. As if I was some kind of exotic accessory that's wheeled in to liven the place up, rather than a service user in need of support.

If transwomen are raped (and God knows, I would never wish that on anyone), surely they would actually feel more supported in a mens rape survivors group. If someone has forced themselves onto you in an unwanted way, why would you want to go and force yourself onto other people in an unwanted way?

Trans women are welcome in these spaces, they add amazing value to these spaces and we need them in these spaces.

Do they mean to imply that if no local transwomen attend, because they haven't experienced sexual violence, the female clients will receive inferior provision?

So they're saying that this centre requires transwomen to experience sexual violence, in order to provide an optimum level of support to female clients?

To paraphrase the full letter, surely "this is framing the support needs of [cis] women as more important than the need
of trans people not to experience sexual violence"?

'To suggest that the value in women-only spaces lies solely or primarily in the exclusion of men significantly undervalues the inception, the purpose and the continuation of women-only spaces'

twitter.com/ShonaghDillon/status/1515250031498080269?cxt=HHwWmsC9lYT4n4cqAAAA

Shonagh Dillon has some good tweets.

72 signatures. 11 are from academics.

Out of the 61 remaining signatures, 61% of them are from only 2 organisations.
In total only 9 organisations represented.

'We do not know of any service which runs groups based on the identity of the perpetrator and it is unhelpful to define service users according to the gender of the perpetrator. It is true that the majority of perpetrators are male, but we also know that as a society, we make it extremely difficult to speak out about crimes committed by female perpetrators so the true scale of these perpetrators is largely unknown.'

Doesn't this contradict many women whose experiences suggest there is a clearly stated need to talk about male violence?

'amazing value'? JFC.

Could someone please explain to me what value the presence of penis-havers will add to women who have been raped?

I think this sums it all up

Saying that trans-identified males 'add amazing value' and are 'needed' in women's rape crisis services is like a paramedic hoping for a diverse range of victims in a road accident in order to make her job more intersectional. It's ghoulish.

twitter.com/helensaxby11/status/1515227088441257990?s=20&t=GE8oRHIQZJIhMFCu1qftBQ

I am sorry S that they released this. I saw it on twitter and thought of you.

It felt like they had some pretty dodgy facts they were working with.

I thought that Ilaria Michelis’ name looked familiar.

She wrote a truly execrable piece that was pushed on LSE socials at the start of the year about gender critical feminists being all about white victimhood.

She is happily trampling on the legacy of feminists from Fawcett to Greer at Newnham College - & her frankly fanatical devotion to the idea TWAW becomes all the more absurd when you read that linked biography. I worked in humanitarian response for ten years, focusing on preventing and providing services to survivors of Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG). I lived and worked in Uganda, Ethiopia, Iraq and Lebanon, and have supported programmes across the Middle East, Central and Eastern Africa, working with populations displaced by conflict. How then, exactly, did it elude you, that VAWG is about sex not gender? That there is no handy get-out clause?

The fact that she should be so well-informed & yet she STILL buys into the ultra-privileged genderist narrative? Horrendous. Utterly horrendous.

I’m so sorry they’re STILL insisting on this @IamSarah: if you feel able, I’m sure that the press would enjoy reminding them of your story.

(As a side note, I’m so SO fecking sick of ZOMG NOBODY SUFFERS LIKE TRANS PEOPLE. You mean the same group of people who say being told things they don’t like = literal violence are filling out surveys saying they have experienced ALL the discrimination?! I am shocked. Utterly shocked. I don’t doubt that some trans people do experience some discrimination; & that some trans people have been very badly discriminated against. But when TRAs have deliberately tried to elevate the rate of hate incidents recorded & deliberately misleading statistics get used over & over again, it’s impossible to trust even those drawn from government stats [due to issue with perceptions + way language has been abused]. The UK does have groups of genuinely vulnerable & marginalised people. Improving things for them would take a lot of resources though, so…)

"Add value"????
Does value=penises now?

It's so fucking sinister - out there in plain sight a man is worth more than any woman

It is utterly bizarre the complete disregard for women in a place where women should be the only priority.

swive me, the author's interpretation of the word "need" there makes the trans lobby's interpretation of the word "woman" seem positively sensible.

Quick check is any digging needed? I’m in the mood for gardening.

Who are these people and what the hell is wrong with them?

Gender based violence, FFS.

www.womenarehuman.com/rape-survivors-network-backs-male-who-joined-female-sessions-driving-woman-out/

They really don't care.

This is appalling. The ultimate betrayal of the women's movement. I will be digging for you Sarah

They have no vacancies available atm but they are actively looking for trans people.

As part of this action, we particularly welcome applications from self-identifying women from communities that are currently underrepresented in our team and the sector more broadly, including those who are :
over 45 years old
disabled
from Black, Asian and marginalised ethnic communities
lesbian, bisexual and/or trans

I mean...

Interesting change of position, from TWAW to they add value

This is one of the most appalling things I've ever read.