Anyone else just sad at how it has gotten to this?

We need to start speaking up and stop giving reasons why there's no point/ worrying what people will think of us. We need to push past the discomfort and speak!

If everything stays the same, nothing will change, as they say. And each of us needs to be the change, as they also say.

When women talk people get killed.

Witches!

The transgender movement has, from the beginning, used violence against trans people (both homicides and suicides) as the fuel in their engine. It is reminders of that violence which are used to silence critics and it is also reminders of that violence which seem to be the justification for why another discriminated-against group should hand over its hard-fought rights. If that handover does not happen, then it is the fault of women that some trans person, somewhere in the world (most often in South America) is killed.

And now it is even the murder of gay people which is to be counted in the relevant type of violence against transgender individuals.

All violence is terrible, all violence should be protested. But it's also true that the rate at which transgender people are killed in the US and the UK is lower than the rate at which men as a demographic group are killed in those countries.

White trans people, in particular, have very low rates of becoming homicide victims.

This does not mean that transgender people wouldn't face harassment or even violence. But the level of such violence is vastly exaggerated for propaganda purposes.

Not so much sad as stunned, disillusioned, and getting more militant by the day, particularly regarding the safety of children.

A citation for the "women are locked up in prison with [male] psychopathic serial killers" just in case anyone reading thinks I'm being hateful or hyperbolic. Depressingly, there are multiple examples. 4w.pub/male-serial-killer-housed-at-washington-womens-prison/

Its probable that the killer was also a gay man. How the fuck can a gay man killing orher gay men be the fault of women.

I didn't realise that this seems to have been a sexually motivated crime and not a hate crime as you'd normally understand the term.

So are sexually motivated crimes hate crimes, or is that only the case when men are the victims?

Some seriously fucked up thinking in twisting this story to make trans people the victims and blame women who are resisting the trans movement. When women are primarily the victims of this type of crime and the trans movement is directly responsible for vulnerable women being locked up in prison with psychopathic serial killers like whoever did this.

When women have lunch in London, horrible murders happen in Ireland. That's how it goes. Like the chaos theory, women not staying silent causes chaos. And the hatred of transgender people is now identical to certain women not shutting up as they should.

The real hatred of transgender people, the kind which causes them to be physically assaulted or harassed in the streets is of very little interest to some trans activists, except when they argue that those events were actually caused by some women somewhere not being silent as women are supposed to be.

I know that these awful murders were of gay men, not of transgender people, but the contagious effects of women speaking are now spreading and slowly causing more and more people to be killed. smh

One frabjulous day, men will be accountable for their own behaviour or consider the radical notion that they occasionally are responsible for the behavioral choices of their own sex class.

For me, it’s linked by group psychology. I expect that LGB people will be dragged in to it, we already are. It’s precisely why many LGBs don’t want to be linked to QTs anymore, alongside the fact that many of us are GC.

There is a distinct minority making the majority very uncomfortable, promoting acceptance of things - like males in female spaces - that we’re not going to accept long term . So full-on backlash is coming… slowly, but it is coming. As another poster mentioned, I believe it’s going to get much worse before it gets better, and it’ll be women getting the brunt.

Then the full backlash - when the floodgates open, there will be a spike in homophobic hate crimes. Because the kind of male given to going out and murdering another person isn’t typically educated or intelligent enough to distinguish which type of ‘queer’ their victim is.

Its probable that the killer was also a gay man. How the fuck can a gay man killing orher gay men be the fault of women.

How can we get this information out more? If people really understood what is behind this they would not be campaigning for it.

I keep thinking about this. People tend to project all the hatred onto the woman speaking up about it. The extreme, abusive misogyny is enabled by widespread background-radiation misogyny.

By the way the thread about that article is currently running here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4530444-article-on-agp-by-lorelei , I didn't mean to derail this thread by posting it, but it seems relevant because the dynamic the OP describes is pure projection.

It has got to this because discussion has been under the radar for so long, and oridinary people have not allowed their voices to be heard in discussion, debate, support and dissent. The silencing tactic is what has got us here. The only way through it is for more and more women to stand up and speak up. The GC viewpoint is not hateful, it is simply live in your body, the way you want, and get on with your life, the way you want. Own your sex, then live however you want. This is the message, it needs getting out there and it needs getting out there fast and to as many young people as possible. More adults need to start adulting.

Can you contact the radio station and make the point to them that you have made here? It may not do anything but it can’t hurt to at least point it out and ask that someone put that straight. I appreciate that the views of listeners calling in are not those of the station itself but If they are letting that rhetoric go unchallenged then they are in a way condoning the blaming of women for the actions of violent men.

First rule of misogyny, innit:

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

That's an extremely interesting article posted by @Absurdle - thanks for posting. At the end there's a link to the entire book to download for free - which I have just done.

This is one of the reasons why TRAs want you to mix up LGB issues with TQ+ issues even though they are completely separate.

There is no upside to grouping them together for LGB people.
It is only of benefit to TQ+ people.

It hasnt 'come to this'. Men have always blamed women for the dreadful things they do.

Maybe you're shocked when young men are behaving with the same misogyny older men do?

The worst thing, this will have to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

In American prisons, vulnerable women are being raped, assaulted and impregnated, and the men keep coming. It will take dead women (note the plural) to make this stop.

In America and increasingly here, children and young people are having their bodies brutalised by unscrupulous doctors. It will take many law suits to see these grifters off.

We will need to support many more legal cases, to ensure womens rights are properly enshrined in law, before employers get the message.

There are many more casualties to come.

I think the problem is that there genuinely is a lot of hate and I'd say even eliminationist thinking in this debate. See this article which is posted on another thread loreleihatpin.substack.com/p/autogynephilia?s=r

It's become impossible for many people to consciously acknowledge the dynamic described in that link, thanks to a longrunning propaganda campaign. But unconsciously everyone knows this level of hatred, aggression and dehumanisation is present, and knows it is the force driving this "debate."

So it's projected onto women because men's psychological issues are always projected onto women, especially where male violence and its root causes cannot be openly and freely discussed. Hence all the rhetoric about litteral violence, murder, Nazism, etc.

How is a man murdering two gay men the fault of women?

Even when trans women are murdered they are murdered by other men. No one can dare blame women when thjs is all down to MALE on MALE violence.

Sorry.. this is not for women to solve. Men need to get their act together and stop killing one another.

Women are allowed to have single sex spaces and us speaking out and fighting for our rights is in no way the cause of men murdering gay men or trans identifying men. That’s not our fault.

There is no class, there are no standards, anything at all is game for appropriation and being made use of. Other people's tragedies are useful fodder to further personal agendas.

Keep calling the behaviour out and naming it; the general public and press are slowly starting to wise up.