Page 6 | Jess Phillips says a woman can't have a penis and that sex and gender are two different things

bellinisurge · 2022-04-14T18:33:17+00:00

Here https://twitter.com/talktv/status/1514542152885452804?s=21&t=g7M6M2EAFww7ZBC6MK5mFQ Will she get a back lash for this, I wonder?

Cailleach1 · 15/04/2022 00:11

Silk purse and sow's ear come to mind.

Cailleach1 · 15/04/2022 00:10

@bellinisurge

The "may " is actually "probably does". This is what changed my view. Something like 80% of those transwomen who have a GRC are still fully intact. And that's WITH a GRC. I'd kind of assumed it was a tiny bunch of men so emotionally tortured that they had their dicks cut off. So I was prepared to Be Kind. It isn't and I'm not.

Don't they 'deflesh' them and get them turned inside out? So, technically they don't get their penis cut off, they get an inverted penis (with a patchwork of other body parts sewn on sometimes, I think).

DifficultBloodyWoman · 15/04/2022 00:01

I’ve had enough of politicians playing with language. I have degrees in linguistics so my tolerance level is probably much higher than most!

Please, please, please - can we get the politicians on TV rather than radio and present them with:

a Barbie doll in typical Barbie clothes
a Barbie doll wearing Ken’s clothes and with a haircut from my 7 year old
a Ken doll in typical Ken doll clothes
a Ken doll wearing a wig and one of Barbie’s dresses
a box labelled women’s toilets
a box labelled men’s urinals

Then ask the politicians to put the dolls in the boxes.

I will base my vote on their classifications.

It is ridiculous to have got to this point! And I am aware that I am reducing this to the most ridiculous possible level. But that is what happens when you have listened to years of lies, obfuscation, and phrases such as TWAW, girl dick, and birthing parent.

I have no idea what people actually believe anymore. But if you want my vote, I need to know what you think in plain, simple, unambiguous English. Or, if language proves too complicated, use visual aides as outlined above.

carefullycourageous · 14/04/2022 23:22

@FOJN

My concern about Johnson is he is saying what he thinks will help him electorally now, but he will happily sell women down the river when he wants to.

Of course he would but the Tories like winning and they know self ID is not a vote winner so, for now, the Tories are amenable to pressure and we should use that advantage whilst we have it.

That is a tough call, more women will be harmed by voting for the Tories. I would not be able to do it myself. I do not think the Tories are amenable to pressure, I think they are using you.

FOJN · 14/04/2022 23:10

My concern about Johnson is he is saying what he thinks will help him electorally now, but he will happily sell women down the river when he wants to.

Of course he would but the Tories like winning and they know self ID is not a vote winner so, for now, the Tories are amenable to pressure and we should use that advantage whilst we have it.

Original poster

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 23:09

Of course Johnson is no friend of women and sees a political opportunity to undermine Labour. It's up to Labour to respond to that with the kind of language people want to hear. Not semantic bollocks that withers under the slightest interrogation.
Her Dolores Umbridge-esque laughing shows they are worried and are testing the waters. Streeting didn't get savaged but he's a man so he wouldn't (in Tra-Tra land, he wouldn't count as a witch). Jess Phillips is an "ally" (TM) and has kept her distance from Rosie Duffield. They are testing whether she gets screamed at now.

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DomesticatedZombie · 14/04/2022 23:02

Well, I'm afraid I'm maybe more cynical in that I think that goes for just about all of the political parties.

carefullycourageous · 14/04/2022 22:59

@DomesticatedZombie

What, I'd be impressed if Jess Philips was honest and said what she thought? That's true.

This seems to be the same argument as 'he's just saying that so you vote for him, you fools'.

Which is sort of the point of democratic politics, I had thought.

It is OK for politicians to say they will do it and carry through, it is when they say it just to get votes but have no intention of carrying through.

My concern about Johnson is he is saying what he thinks will help him electorally now, but he will happily sell women down the river when he wants to.

FOJN · 14/04/2022 22:59

For a long time JP's pinned tweet has been an article complaining about lack of refuge spaces for victims of domestic violence, she thinks they deserved so much better. Her idea of better appears to be allowing men into those refuges. Giving with one hand whilst taking with the other, it's hard to calculate if there is a "net" good for women there.

DomesticatedZombie · 14/04/2022 22:54

What, I'd be impressed if Jess Philips was honest and said what she thought? That's true.

This seems to be the same argument as 'he's just saying that so you vote for him, you fools'.

Which is sort of the point of democratic politics, I had thought.

Original poster

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 22:51

@carefullycourageous , I can appreciate a clearly made point that doesn't accord with mine. Look up her Q&A on here. It was dreadful. Rosie Duffield is often too polite and mild but she, at least, makes her points clearly and well. And she still gets the abuse she gets.

There is literally no one in thrall to the TRA cult that makes any decent point. If there was, I would acknowledge it.

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RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 14/04/2022 22:49

[quote carefullycourageous]@DomesticatedZombie My suspicion is if JP, along with all policticans, was saying what the listener wanted her to say, she would suddenly be deemed a lot less 'mediocre' and a lot more 'brave and impressive'.[/quote]
Nah I don’t reckon

Johnson has arguably said what people on here want him to say…and on just about every post about his comments the relevant poster has a litany of slurs about him before saying ‘…but he is right on this’

carefullycourageous · 14/04/2022 22:46

@DomesticatedZombie My suspicion is if JP, along with all policticans, was saying what the listener wanted her to say, she would suddenly be deemed a lot less 'mediocre' and a lot more 'brave and impressive'.

FannyCann · 14/04/2022 22:45

It sounds to me as if the Labour leadership are panicking and have finally come up with an agreed line, which is essentially "Biology is important! Of course it is! Ha ha ha ha" combined with "but trans women are important too! And they have very sad lives! So we need to be kind to everyone!" And then they hope that no one drills down into the detail.

Spot on @RoyalCorgi

As if no one would notice the sudden panicked about turn.

DomesticatedZombie · 14/04/2022 22:40

@carefullycourageous

she's mediocre

I don't even especially care about JP, but I am tired of this approach. Stick to critiquing her position. Is she really mediocre, given she has come from a non-privileged background to get to where she is? Is Johnson, the new saviour of women, not also pretty mediocre?

One assesses politicians on a variety of issues/positions, and to decide someone is 'mediocre' or 'insincere' or 'untrustworthy' overall is a perfectly reasonable stance.

Winederlust · 14/04/2022 22:40

I didn't call her mediocre.
But you don't have to be a fool to be mediocre.

DelurkingLawyer · 14/04/2022 22:39

Yes, I know. That’s why I put “may” in inverted commas, to signal she was being distinctly economical with the truth. She is still far from telling the truth but the closer she or anyone gets to it the better.

I read somewhere that the number of MTF surgeries in the UK is 140 a year and that number has stayed pretty consistent. It was used to justify the GRA on the basis it was such a tiny number of people.

I think Starmer wouldn’t say “yes some women have a penis [ie TW with a penis who have a GRC and are treated for some purposes as legally female]” precisely because he was very unwilling to publicise how few have surgery. That and because the follow up would be “and Labour’s policy on self ID would result in loads more”

carefullycourageous · 14/04/2022 22:38

I love that JP is both no fool, she knows what she's saying and exactly how to phrase it in a way that's suitably ambiguous and mediocre.

As I say, I am not trying to be a specific person's defender, I am not in the fan club.

Original poster

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 22:35

She's "quirky backbencher " material. She's not Cabinet material. So I stand by "mediocre "

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Winederlust · 14/04/2022 22:34

@carefullycourageous

I can disagree with her on this issue (and others) and still respect and feel grateful for her work on men’s violence against women. This from Karen Ingala Smith is an example of a comment expressing disagreement that is not alienating.

It is the way people will write off everything someone does that is good/helpful, because they are not in agreement about this issue. I find it alienating and my view is it is self-defeating.

Problem is when someone has been saying one thing for so long, it's hardly surprising that people are cynical when they suddenly appear to change their mind out of the blue with no explanation. And Jess is no fool, she knows what she's saying and exactly how to phrase it in a way that's suitably ambiguous. And we're also not foolish enough to fall for it.

Original poster

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 22:31

@carefullycourageous of course Johnson is mediocre. Actually, I think he's criminally incompetent.
But I go back to her performance on here. When faced with the people you would think would be her natural allies, namely strong minded and fully engaged women, she almost literally crumpled. Not good enough.

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tabbycatstripy · 14/04/2022 22:30

I actually think saying someone is mediocre is completely legitimate. JP doesn’t exactly mince her words. Why should voters not say what they think of her performance?

Personally I don’t think she is mediocre. She seems to be a decent enough MP. But I don’t want her in government.

Original poster

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 22:27

The "may " is actually "probably does". This is what changed my view. Something like 80% of those transwomen who have a GRC are still fully intact. And that's WITH a GRC. I'd kind of assumed it was a tiny bunch of men so emotionally tortured that they had their dicks cut off. So I was prepared to Be Kind. It isn't and I'm not.

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carefullycourageous · 14/04/2022 22:26

she's mediocre

I don't even especially care about JP, but I am tired of this approach. Stick to critiquing her position. Is she really mediocre, given she has come from a non-privileged background to get to where she is? Is Johnson, the new saviour of women, not also pretty mediocre?

DelurkingLawyer · 14/04/2022 22:20

Absolutely the only good thing that came out of this is that she admitted that TW “may” have a penis. So many people still believe that most TW have had surgery and can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

The more that Labour fesses up to the existence of the 80-90% who haven’t, the better. Once people know this they very quickly appreciate the problems about single sex spaces etc.