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Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing

1004 replies

ickky · 14/04/2022 16:22

The Tribunal will start on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

I have sent a request but haven't had anything back yet. Hopefully nearer the time.

OP posts:
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8
nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:27

Ahh, great, Dr Green has drawn the distinction between "gender critical feminists" and people who hold gender critical views. Subtle but important.

Datun · 29/04/2022 12:27

nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:25

It's my impression that GCC counsel are arguing on the basis that "gender critical views" is a different thing to feminism and is more akin to "anti-trans".

Yes. I'd like to see a definition, so they can be disabused of that.

tabbycatstripy · 29/04/2022 12:27

Dr Green is doing well here, making a very clear distinction between GC views and GC feminism.

unwashedanddazed · 29/04/2022 12:26

Given the batshittery that the tribunal spouted in the Webberley judgement, we can't assume judges won't buy the idea that more men support feminism than women do.

Queenoftheashes · 29/04/2022 12:26

This woman has extreme Dolores Umbridge vibes

tabbycatstripy · 29/04/2022 12:26

'I know they need to try and discredit the witnesses, but I think it's a pretty poor tactic trying to claim that feminism isn't largely supported by females!'

Gender critical feminism is a more specific thing than the movement that calls itself feminism, though. There is a wide movement that calls itself 'feminism', which includes a lamentable number of people who don't seem to agree that they are trying to say anything about females. :)

nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:25

It's my impression that GCC counsel are arguing on the basis that "gender critical views" is a different thing to feminism and is more akin to "anti-trans".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 12:23

If you remember Maya's tribunal some of the questions and assertions were eye rollingly stupid but the judge still bought it, so who knows.

Datun · 29/04/2022 12:21

I know they need to try and discredit the witnesses, but I think it's a pretty poor tactic trying to claim that feminism isn't largely supported by females! And criticism of gender stereotypes which oppress women, isn't largely supported by women, too.

i'm assuming that the judge think the same.

Signalbox · 29/04/2022 12:20

Some of these questions are so stupid.
I think Dr Green is struggling not to roll her eyes :D

tabbycatstripy · 29/04/2022 12:17

I love this salvo that there might be thousands of male people giving themselves fake female names in order to subscribe to newsletters about women's rights.

Credible. Very credible.

'First name theory.'

Datun · 29/04/2022 12:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 12:13

She should mention MN. Overwhelmingly female.

Yes. I'm pretty certain that Justine is on record saying that the entire site is mostly women. Given that they don't appear to accept the evidence of everybody's eyes and ears.

nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:15

This is clear is mud mixing "gender critical feminists", and "supporters of gender critical views", and then conflating that with people not being supportive of trans rights (whatever that might mean).

However, making things as clear as mud is exactly what counsel for GCC want to do. To be fair challenging the evidence of the other side is key to their role.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 12:13

She should mention MN. Overwhelmingly female.

Datun · 29/04/2022 12:08

nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:05

I don't see there being a cunning strategy here, I think it's simply to make AB's witnesses look like they're making assertions based on a biased reading of incomplete sets of data, in order to making AB's case look weak.

Thats why they are trying to separate gender criticism out from feminism in general I suppose. Hence the need to define it as something else, i.e. anti-trans.

SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 29/04/2022 12:07

It's so frustrating because we can make the points here easily but under pressure and being cross examined by an expert barrister I can imagine it is very difficult.

To be fair I think Dr Green is doing better under pressure than I can do here, anonymously, eating chocolate eggs and with my toddler safely asleep. 😀

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 12:06

If you remember Jane Russell was the cross examining barrister for CGD in Maya's first tribunal and appeal I think.

Signalbox · 29/04/2022 12:06

Has anyone else's session frozen?

SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 29/04/2022 12:05

They seem to think that '99% of GC feminists are women' is the same as '99% of women are GC feminists'.

nauticant · 29/04/2022 12:05

I don't see there being a cunning strategy here, I think it's simply to make AB's witnesses look like they're making assertions based on a biased reading of incomplete sets of data, in order to making AB's case look weak.

drwitch · 29/04/2022 12:05

They are trying to separate GC from feminism aren't they. - not understanding that GC beliefs are fundamental to our feminism

Datun · 29/04/2022 12:04

It's a nonsense argument. Gender benefits men.

They really think that gender critical just means anti trans.

After all this time. All these words!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 12:04

It's so frustrating because we can make the points here easily but under pressure and being cross examined by an expert barrister I can imagine it is very difficult.

SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 29/04/2022 12:04

FFS they do not understand the statistical proposition at all! Kudos to Dr Green for trying to clarify...

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