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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is the correct response to TERF?

110 replies

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 08:23

I was called a TERF at work the other day. Someone made a comment about JKR and I just said "JKR said nothing wrong". There was an audible gasp from the others around but the conversation stopped immediately when someone else walked in and asked what was going on. The person who made the comment about JKR in the first place said "we have some trans exclusionary radical feminism going on over here" and pointed at me. I just said "I'm not a trans exclusionary radical feminist". I honestly didn't expect it and didn't have an response prepared.
DP has said I shouldn't make comments like that again as he's worried about me losing my job, so it probably won't happen again, but what should I have said back? What's the correct response to it?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 14/04/2022 09:20

It was a man who said it.

I'd definitely have been tempted by my ill-informed misogynist line. Of maybe an eyebrow raise and 'you're an expert of feminism are you?'

bellinisurge · 14/04/2022 09:18

I was called a TERF at a work social event. The correct response was "Fuck Off" and a refusal to attend any more while that person was also there. Luckily that person has been suspended for , I assume, unrelated knobbery. I doubt anyone cared that I wasn't going, to be honest. But I did.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 14/04/2022 09:18

@Nellodee

How about "Obviously we have very different opinions on this matter. I hope you're able to remain respectful about this in our workplace."
Great response.
JellySaurus · 14/04/2022 09:16

But if I worked somewhere hostile or with someone I felt uneasy about, I would possibly use Nelodee's response.

JellySaurus · 14/04/2022 09:14

In a similar situation I replied mildly with "How can I be trans-exclusionary when I include transmen in my feminism?"
Which led to a discussion about 'men' and 'women'. I avoided using any 'What is a?' questions, and pointed out that feminism concerns itself with supporting the lives of all female people, regardless of their belief or politics, and particularly with respect to issues caused by male people.

We left it there. They did say "But transmen are men" and I responded with something along the lines of "Everybody has the right to practice their beliefs, but I don't have to believe the same as them. Just like I don't have to believe in Jesus." I don't know whether I made them stop and think, but they certainly never called me a TERF again.

Pudmyboy · 14/04/2022 09:13

FART (Female Averse Radical Feminist). Love this also !!!

Pudmyboy · 14/04/2022 09:09

@LittleWhingingWoman

I'd rather be a TERF than a WART. (Woman Averse Radical Transactivist)
Love this!! Mind if I use it??
PermanentTemporary · 14/04/2022 09:07

It's possible that we've reached the point in this issue when you can just roll your eyes and say 'yawn' to indicate we should have moved far beyond these exchanges. But I'm sure @Nellodee has the right response.

Rightsraptor · 14/04/2022 09:05

It is really scary, OP, and you have my sympathy. It's so easy for some to say 'tell them to fuck off' or whatever but it's your job, your life and not ours.

You could ask what JKR has actually said? Because none of them will know. They'll have been told what someone thinks she said, and that someone was told by someone else .... Chinese whispers. She has said nothing wrong at all. They just believe what they are told and that is scary indeed.

ginslinger · 14/04/2022 09:04

Thank you.

IvyTwines · 14/04/2022 09:03

Your workplace or colleagues or whatever sound rather 17th century Salem, I must say.

PearlHart · 14/04/2022 09:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nellodee · 14/04/2022 09:01

How about "Obviously we have very different opinions on this matter. I hope you're able to remain respectful about this in our workplace."

IvyTwines · 14/04/2022 09:00

Ask them to explain what they mean by the term. If they bring up toilets, prisons, changing rooms, sports, dating apps, point out that you are not 'trans exclusionary' as you probably DO include transmen and transboys and biologically female non-binary-identifiers in those spaces. And that's a big group of 'trans' there. It's the penis-havers who aren't welcome. Maybe 'penis / XY exclusionary radical feminist' is the more accurate term.

Chobbers · 14/04/2022 09:00

I agree with the approach above - ask a neutral question - what did JKR say that was transphobic? Or -What makes you think that?
May start a debate (who knows?) but at the very least you’ve expressed yourself without compromising your position.
I think it’s appalling that people have to go to these lengths to dare to have a opinion.

Namechangeforthis88 · 14/04/2022 09:00

What @VaddaABeetch said. Try to act the daft lassie without showing your own hand: Are you sure? Golly, that doesn't sound like something she would say, hold on a minute I'm just looking on-line to see what did she ACTUALLY say, I really want to know now! Oh look, here it is, just a minute, no, I can't see her saying what you said, maybe you got the wrong end of the stick, ha ha, funny when that happens! Now we know.

Floisme · 14/04/2022 08:59

I would accept 'MERF' - male excluding radical feminist (although I have to laugh at how believing biology makes me radical).

babbez · 14/04/2022 08:58

The correct response is 'yes I am, so what' but that's obviously harder at work. Sounds like your colleagues aren't on the other persons side, or at least disagree with calling you out like that.

sharksarecool · 14/04/2022 08:57

I would respond by saying there's nothing radical about excluding males from feminism

napody · 14/04/2022 08:55

@NotTerfNorCis

That situation you describe is creepy as hell! Was the 'terf' accusor male or female?
It really is! The pointing, and twisting the situation for someone who had just walked in. And not naming you but talking about you. ‘Flashpaper thinks JKR said nothing wrong’ would be a normal way to explain the situation. I hope he doesn’t cause you problems.
VaddaABeetch · 14/04/2022 08:53

I hold my wheat . Is somebody says something about JKR I ask what sis she say. If I get yadda transphobic yadda, I ask again but what did she say exactly. I keep my tone neutral, smiley. It’s enough to get some people using their brains.

Doesn’t really answer your question but doesn’t give them an opportunity to throw insults.

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 08:53

I won't be expressing any views like this again. I didn't even think about what I'd said to be honest, the words just came tumbling out. It's unlikely I'll be fired, but I will be keeping my mouth shut. I wish I was brave enough like JKR and Maya but I can't risk it.
It was a man who said it. I'm surprised he knew what a TERF was to be honest, but out of everyone in the room that day I guess he would have been the only one who did. I think everyone else has just seen and heard things on social media which is why I got the gasped responses.

OP posts:
BlubFestival · 14/04/2022 08:51

Although this is also perfect Grin

I'd rather be a TERF than a WART.
(Woman Averse Radical Transactivist)

ErrolTheDragon · 14/04/2022 08:50

Obviously the response depends critically on the context but it sounds like one might have been a sad head-shake and "I'm afraid we have some ill-informed misogyny going on over there" . And then if they pushed back ask them to explain exactly what it was she's said that they disagree with.

BlubFestival · 14/04/2022 08:49

I think your response was perfect. Simple and factual. I am not a TERF.

I disagree with going down the "TERF is a slur. Apologise" road at work. Gives scope to extend the argument.

"TERF is a slur" is (in my view) an own goal for GC movement. It's too easy for TRAs to provide a "gotcha" response and we end up in a discussion about the origins of the term rather than keeping the focus on women's sex based rights.

It's another example to me of the deliberate obfuscation tactics that are used by TRAs (entirely taken from the authoritarian's handbook) to create a topsy turvy world where people start to question whether there is such a thing as an objective reality.