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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is the correct response to TERF?

110 replies

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 08:23

I was called a TERF at work the other day. Someone made a comment about JKR and I just said "JKR said nothing wrong". There was an audible gasp from the others around but the conversation stopped immediately when someone else walked in and asked what was going on. The person who made the comment about JKR in the first place said "we have some trans exclusionary radical feminism going on over here" and pointed at me. I just said "I'm not a trans exclusionary radical feminist". I honestly didn't expect it and didn't have an response prepared.
DP has said I shouldn't make comments like that again as he's worried about me losing my job, so it probably won't happen again, but what should I have said back? What's the correct response to it?

OP posts:
mirax · 14/04/2022 12:09

@MogtheMerciless

‘Why yes, I am Tired of Explaining Reality to F@ckwits.’
I would say thank you! I am proudly terf.
Neverreturntoathread · 14/04/2022 12:04

“Oh dear, is a witch hunt on? How very seventeeth-century of us. Not to worry, a man has arrived to explain to us all what feminism should be! Carry on.”

BridgeofStock · 14/04/2022 12:03

Penis havers exclusionary radical feminist. PHERF Grin

Narcoanonymoose · 14/04/2022 12:00

Like it ever happened Hmm Most of the women I work with aren't interested abd don't e en kniw what TERF means.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 14/04/2022 11:53

@flashpaper

Thanks all. Will definitely take some of these responses with me, in case my mouth has a mind of its own again!
I really wouldn't get into "Tediously Explaining Reality.." comebacks. They work fine in print, but not in conversation with a bully. In the workplace, they also open you up to "he said, she said" accusations, when you want the moral high ground, in case of any HR blowback.
viques · 14/04/2022 11:51

Smile and nod. Then ask if they have actually read JKRs essay for themselves or are they relying on misinformation?

ethelredonagoodday · 14/04/2022 11:51

@Babdoc

Someone on MN coined the wonderful comeback that TERF stood for “Tired (of) Explaining Reality (to) Fuckwits.” I’d have said that your accuser, OP. They are obviously a shallow virtue signaller, pointing and shrieking “heretic”. Tell them to “read JKR’s statement and find a single transphobic thing in it. I’ll wait.”
Excellent!
MogtheMerciless · 14/04/2022 11:39

‘Why yes, I am Tired of Explaining Reality to F@ckwits.’

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 11:35

Thanks all. Will definitely take some of these responses with me, in case my mouth has a mind of its own again!

OP posts:
shiningstar2 · 14/04/2022 11:05

If they are allowed to express their views about JK Rowling why are you not allowed to express yours. It is very concerning that reasoned polite debate has been replaced by a type of cancel culture on these issues. They can persuade you ( or shut you up) you are not allowed to present views to persuade them.

Palmfrond · 14/04/2022 10:53

Oops, sorry , pp already said more eloquently re bullying

Palmfrond · 14/04/2022 10:52

No one will ever have the perfect comeback when they need it, OP, but I thought yours was very decent.
More concerning (and possibly actionable) is workplace bullying, name calling, unprofessional behaviour etc. Something to watch out for if it happens again.

OhHolyJesus · 14/04/2022 10:39

Do you have an HR Dept you can report it to? Even if you make it clear they need not take any further action it should be recorded in case of future bullying.

A judge has ruled that Maya's views are protected and "worthy of respect in a democracy society".

You are in solid ground but I understand if you don't want to make a fuss.

A Buttergasp in a office in response to your simply and reasonable statement sounds like you work with some very fragile egos.

Mumsnut · 14/04/2022 10:20

'You mean, a realist?'

Babdoc · 14/04/2022 10:16

Someone on MN coined the wonderful comeback that TERF stood for
“Tired (of) Explaining Reality (to) Fuckwits.”
I’d have said that your accuser, OP.
They are obviously a shallow virtue signaller, pointing and shrieking “heretic”.
Tell them to “read JKR’s statement and find a single transphobic thing in it. I’ll wait.”

mrziggycoco · 14/04/2022 10:06

@Wavingnotdrown1ng

A biological realist.
I took that to mean the suggestion was to ask the person something like 'what does that mean?'

I find asking questions is the way to go because what they're saying doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Lean the art of questioning with genuine curiosity until they tie themselves up in knots. Use their method of obfuscating any answers to their questions and instead questioning them once more. The questions are endless:

What makes you say I'm a feminist? - being the first one I'd ask in that situation.

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 14/04/2022 09:57

I would have said I'm male exclusionary when it comes to women's single sex places. Or told them they were a misogynist using a sexist slur - see thread here mobile.twitter.com/hogotheforsaken/status/1158355043667664896?lang=en-GB

Flowers sounds horrible

IvyTwines · 14/04/2022 09:44

Set them homework: please read her essay, take time to think about it, and then we can all meet again to discuss this next week. Maybe also suggest making a 'time capsule' where they can all record what they think on these issues, and then come back and open it in 5 years and see how well they've aged.

Googlecanthelpme · 14/04/2022 09:31

I’d probably just shrug my shoulders and say “you think I’m a terf, I think you’re a misogynist, so here we are 🤷‍♀️“ and walk away.

Fuck them. But also don’t bother getting into debate with people who throw terf around.
It’s designed to insult and shut down women without genuine debate on issues which exclusively affect us.
If someone has opposing views, that’s absolutely fine isn’t it - we don’t all agree on everything but someone who will easily pull out the terf tactic isn’t someone who will have well informed genuine opinions. So therefore don’t waste your time.

Datun · 14/04/2022 09:28

Obviously it depends on the context, and I agree if you can ask what JK actually said that would be a good thing, but it depends whether or not you want to engage, at all.

"I thought she must've said some terrible things, but I've looked them up online I honestly can't see the problem, can anyone show me?"

Or

"Well I don't know about you but I can't defend putting male rapists into female prisons/men competing against women in sport".

"How do you defend that?"

Both those reactions are putting them in the position where they have to defend something, instead of just slinging a slur at you.

And I'd be surprised if you didn't find a lot of agreement, anyway. Men in women's sports is not a popular opinion.

In other words, make it specific. That's if you want to engage in any way, of course.

Mochudubh · 14/04/2022 09:28

I think I'd ask them to explain exactly what they meant by the term and how it applies to you. Then watch them tie themselves in knots.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 14/04/2022 09:25

I'm continually amazed by the number of MNetters who haven't heard of Google.

A friend has MS and can experience overwhelming fatigue. When particularly exasperated, she has been known to comment, "Is your Google broken?"

WinterTrees · 14/04/2022 09:24

God, sorry - I need more tea.

I see you've already said it was a man, which is interesting because that's what I assumed.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 14/04/2022 09:24

It doesn't really matter how you respond, as long as you don't back down. The whole aim of "T**F is to silence - the implication being that GC views are unsayable.. If you are not silenced, you take the power from your accuser, whatever your response. Coldly professional is good in some contexts, 'fuck off' works well in others.

WinterTrees · 14/04/2022 09:22

Just out of interest OP, was the person who made the comment and referred to you as a TERF a man?

It's sinister and scary either way, but if it's a man policing your speech around women's rights it's worse.