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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is the correct response to TERF?

110 replies

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 08:23

I was called a TERF at work the other day. Someone made a comment about JKR and I just said "JKR said nothing wrong". There was an audible gasp from the others around but the conversation stopped immediately when someone else walked in and asked what was going on. The person who made the comment about JKR in the first place said "we have some trans exclusionary radical feminism going on over here" and pointed at me. I just said "I'm not a trans exclusionary radical feminist". I honestly didn't expect it and didn't have an response prepared.
DP has said I shouldn't make comments like that again as he's worried about me losing my job, so it probably won't happen again, but what should I have said back? What's the correct response to it?

OP posts:
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KohlaParasaurus · 07/12/2022 10:40

I'm quite happy to miss the point and tell them about the differences between me and a proper RADICAL feminist until they glaze over and drift off.

babyjellyfish · 07/12/2022 10:14

I would point out that TERF is a misogynistic slur against a group of people with a legally protected belief under the Equality Act.

DameHelena · 07/12/2022 09:51

Shrug and 'Okay.'
People can call me what they like AFAIC.

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 09:32

I was called a terf at a work's Christmas do a few years ago. I just walked away. I'm at a work's do with the same crowd this weekend.
I may say "yes, I am tired of explaining reality to fuckwits". Or I may just walk away again.

MrsFButton · 07/12/2022 09:27

My imagined response would be "my feminism isn't trans exclusionary, I think feminism is for all women, including women who consider themselves trans. My feminism does exclude men though. I wouldn't consider myself that radical, but thanks."

In reality I'd probably be too nervous to say anything, or I'd say something that sounded aggressive because of feeling defensive.

I think in the circumstances of the OP you could say, "JKR has spoken up for women's rights, she's never said anything against trans people, and the fact that I've checked out what she actually tweeted doesn't make me a terf"

nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 07:31

That has, in court, been legally determined a term of abuse based on prejudice and intolerance of other beliefs and faiths. It will be an HR matter if you continue to abuse me.

That's the bottom line.

Do you not agree female type women should have equality of access to society then?

Or

Oh so you're for female women being raped in prisons and hospital wards then? As has happened, let me find you the evidence. You support female body counts for male happiness do you? How very bloody interesting. Sterilising children, are you behind that too? How about safeguarding? Think that's a good thing?

Or

Which BIT exactly did you have a problem with for JKR? Which article?

Because they never fucking know, they're just parroting the never ending bullshit brainwash that emanates from activists like a tide.

Do you know what 'Useful Idiot' means? Is another way to put it.

WinterLobelia · 07/12/2022 07:22

Love it. Not least because that is exactly what it is.

teawamutu · 07/12/2022 07:15

Per Hadley Freeman in her Woman's Hour interview: I identify as a Reality Based Feminist.

turbonerd · 06/12/2022 19:55

Perhaps the correct response is
«Why, Thank you!»

havent rtft but I for one am delighted and honored to be a bigoted, racist, gay-slaying (not my words - but really got called that) terfy domesticated zombie. It makes my day every time.
Because why would I care what people call me when they ALSO believe that humans can akshuly change their akshul biological sex just by THINKING it with their brains?

dancingqueen123 · 06/12/2022 19:35

Yes I'm tired of explaining reality to fuckwits 👍👍👍

DaSilvaP · 06/12/2022 19:13

Not sure how many would get it, but

"you would have made for a good Red Guard leading 'criticism and self-criticism' sessions under Mao"

would have been a well deserved reply.

Or something that usually gets the point pretty effectively:

"would you care to write that down, date and sign?"

ExMachinaDeus · 16/04/2022 20:07

and I don't want to be another of those women who are "cancelled" and dragged through the mud for expressing facts.

I’ve been there (although I wasn’t permitted to speak publicly about my experience) and it is really tough. You feel as though your whole character and professional life is being undermined. I don’t know how Ms Forstater coped (although I think she had family support; I don’t).

It happened to me before the Forstater appeal, so I couldn’t cite that. But you can.

Your colleague sounds like a male chauvinist prig.

flashpaper · 16/04/2022 19:46

@ExMachinaDeus

I was called a TERF at work the other day.

That is pretty insulting & a term of abuse, simply for expressing an opinion on a writers' writing.

Given the outcome of Maya Forstater's hearing, you could well raise a grievance against the colleague who labelled you this way, or at the very least, if YOU are threatened with disciplinary proceedings, cite the Forstater case.

You are covered by the Equalities Act.

Thank you @ExMachinaDeus This is what I said to my DP. The views I hold are protected, I shouldn't imagine I'd get fired for saying that I didn't believe that JKR said anything wrong. He worries, understandably. He doesn't want, and I don't want to be another of those women who are "cancelled" and dragged through the mud for expressing facts.
OP posts:
flashpaper · 16/04/2022 19:43

@arethereanyleftatall

In fact your reaction op is everything that's wrong. This situation has become the Emperors New Clothes. No one wants to say 'but he's naked' or 'yup, I don't think men can become women' but almost everybody is thinking it.
I completely agree @arethereanyleftatall. I have had some short conversations with others about it, who all agree with the view that men cannot become women and should not be in female changing rooms, toilets, sports, prisons etc. Unfortunately, it's those who shout the loudest that get heard and I feel like this particular man would bellow.
OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 16/04/2022 17:59

I tried all of the adult approaches suggested by Datun and others. I got:

I don't care about sports.
That's a straw man (about rape in prisons).
I don't fucking want to (about quoting me one transphobic line from JKR).
This is why I stay off Twitter because it's a cesspit (about everything else I said). I didn't like to tell him it's the radicalisation portal of toilet brushes, Boden and vipers. I stay off Twitter too.

At this point there was shouting. I'm still not speaking to him. I think it's because eve since I've known him he's done mothing for anyone while I've always been the right on person working to make the world better. He doesn't want to do the work, but proving I'm an arsehole negates it.

alreadytaken · 16/04/2022 17:28

I go with do you mean tired of explaining reality to fantasists - marginally more polite that the one quoted earlier.

TheGreatATuin · 16/04/2022 17:14

@timeisnotaline

I suggest, given it was a man making the comment, a slightly incredulous smile, and ‘Are you the office feminism expert now? Self appointed I presume- it certainly wasn’t by popular vote.’
Ooh I like this one.
ExMachinaDeus · 16/04/2022 14:33

I was called a TERF at work the other day.

That is pretty insulting & a term of abuse, simply for expressing an opinion on a writers' writing.

Given the outcome of Maya Forstater's hearing, you could well raise a grievance against the colleague who labelled you this way, or at the very least, if YOU are threatened with disciplinary proceedings, cite the Forstater case.

You are covered by the Equalities Act.

arethereanyleftatall · 16/04/2022 10:40

In fact your reaction op is everything that's wrong. This situation has become the Emperors New Clothes. No one wants to say 'but he's naked' or 'yup, I don't think men can become women' but almost everybody is thinking it.

Faffertea · 16/04/2022 10:38

“It’s funny how often that term is used by men against women isn’t it? But if being a TERF means I don’t think female prisoners should be locked in with male rapists who identify as women then so be it.”

Hopefully gives others around you an idea that what it means is an opinion shared by many people.

twelly · 16/04/2022 10:31

I think OP this situation sums up how the majority who I believe have this view are silenced - the fear of losing jobs and employer action. I don't even believe that the employer in the majority of cases believe it but again they are frightened into this situation.
I feel strongly that an employer can tell you how to act but cannot tell you what to think.

timeisnotaline · 16/04/2022 10:14

I suggest, given it was a man making the comment, a slightly incredulous smile, and ‘Are you the office feminism expert now? Self appointed I presume- it certainly wasn’t by popular vote.’

arethereanyleftatall · 16/04/2022 09:31

Own it and don't take it as an insult.
'Yeah, I don't think natal men should be in women's spaces or sports.'
And remember that the vast majority of people agree with you, even if they're too scared to voice it.

Pluvia · 15/04/2022 22:53

@Narcoanonymoose

Like it ever happened Hmm Most of the women I work with aren't interested abd don't e en kniw what TERF means.
A few weeks ago I was working on a construction site with a male technician whom I know to say hello to and his sidekick: both decent non-sexist men in their 40s. We were 25 metres up on a roof when one of them said to me, 'Pluvia, what's your take on this transgender thing?' and then told me all about his surprisingly well-informed concerns. Before I could get a word in the man working with him chipped in to tell me how worried he is about his wife and daughters' potential loss of rights. I just told them I shared their worries and invited them to attend an upcoming local event, which they did — and they brought their wives, too. If two guys working in the construction sector know what a terf is, @Narcoanonymoose, you can bet most women do.
dementedma · 15/04/2022 21:19

Laughter.

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