Boris or bust?

Boris is doing great work on Ukraine too. People never give him credit for the good stuff. That annoys me too. It’s so biased. Criticism is fine but it should be balanced.
On covid it turns out we have performed averagely and in fact much better than many other European countries. Does that get mentioned? No it doesn’t and yet plenty were shouting we were worst in the world for much of 2020-2021. Vaccines also great and lifting covid restrictions in July 2021 I thought was exactly right.
If you hate a politician then you get blinded to the other stuff they do right as you refuse to see it. I don’t hate any politician, I think it’s an impossible job often.
People can vote however they want and for any reason they want. That’s democracy.

Beware single issue politics. It's how we got in this hideous mess in the first place. Boris and his shower of shitbags doesn't give a monkeys about womens' rights, he'll say anything to fool people into voting for him - how have people not learned that yet?

I agree OP. As a mother of a daughter affected directly, and because I deeply care about women's sex based rights, I have no other option. All the other parties are prepared to throw my child under the bus for the sake of inclusion and being kind. Where I live, my vote will be a piss in the ocean of Labour voters, but I dont have it in me not to stand up to this. At least I'd be able to tell her in years to come that I tried my best. My local MP (Labour) didnt even dignify me with a response when I wrote to her about the issue and my concerns about the conversion therapy ban proposals. I am working class and a life long labour voter, so it pains me terribly to even consider voting Tory, but it is the only option. I do hope however, that Rosie Duffield keeps her job, we need more like her in the Labour party.

Sorry have you forgotten all the other shit he’s pulled just because you and he align on a very small bit of agenda? Are you a troll trying to make feminists look stupid? He broke the law several times while in the highest position that the law empowers. He is a racist, sexist, classist bigot who wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. But because he did a nice sound bite that his market researchers told him might gain him some female votes (a voter group the tories are deficient it) you believe that he actually means it? And will give the tories your vote, while they remove all social support networks and hike taxes to line their mates pockets?

@beguilingeyes Boris never wanted those rules. He never believed in them. He wanted a more liberal way but the pile on at the time was mental. So if anything he should have had more backbone then and not been so draconian. But isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing. I remember the shrill calls for schools to be closed immediately and that lockdown happened too late. It was deafening.

This is true but I put that down to ignorance and wanting to be seen to be doing the right thing ( misguidedly) Only really Mumsnet was sounding the alarm back in 2016 and journalists like Janice Turner. They have now put the brakes on hard as they can see the issues and back peddling at lightening speed. Labour too can see the issues but either don’t care or think they are unimportant. That’s the difference to me. And if labour can be taken in by gender identity ideology and embrace it despite the obvious harm to women and girls then I am not sure I think they are capable of deep thinking and looking at an issue in the round. And that worries me. They embraced an ideology that is obviously (to me) harmful.
They are on the “wrong side of history” on this

Fully agree. It’s naivety. I mean how many of us were in a ‘be kind’ position before we scratched the surface and pulled the curtain back. I think that’s EXACTLY where Teresa May was. She thought she was being empathetic. Now at least Boris has read the Sex Matters marketing - his little interview on it last week was really genius. If you pull apart what he said. He started by emphasising his creds on LGB rights. Then he picked on the three most salient issues - safe spaces, sport, child safeguarding. Then he said sexuality and gender is different and it is too simplistic to sweep them under the same laws. I mean he nailed it. As somebody who works in marketing and PR it was a lesson in comms. By the way I am talking ONLY about this one speech before anyone piles on about him in general!

Labour look utterly thick in all this. Lisa Nandy ffs. About male rapists being allowed in prison. Has she got zero critical thinking. Thornberry. Lammy. Starmer. What they say is degrading to women and frankly stupid. How can Starmer say that anyone can be a woman and then want female safe spaces. I mean duuurrrrr. Does he lack critical thinking. Oh and that female Labour MP last week, what’s her name - who threw women’s sports under a bus. That’s why I can’t vote Labour. They are stupid.

It's not about 'cake' FFS! This is what the Tories are saying to diminish it.
It's about him breaking the laws that he set (multiple times, so it wasn't just nine minutes) and lying about it in Parliament .
They're taking us for fools and laughing about it.
And the only person who has resigned over this is a woman.

@lakeswimmer you are right re rest of world but I thought we were talking about the U.K. and the Tory party in particular.

I cannot vote Conservative. I'm in a former red wall constituency so my vote very much matters. Women's rights are under threat, but climate change is an existential threat and we cannot afford four more years of doing practically nothing.

I’ll weigh up other policies when deciding but self ID and erosion of sex based rights is a line for me.
150,000 people dead due to Tory austerity (pre covid) was my red line. I wonder how many will be killed by Tory poverty this time? I haven't voted Labour since the Iraq war, the poverty the Tories have caused was my Iraq war moment with them.

As much as I disagree with self ID I can't vote for this bunch of liars. Doubt it will get through parliament even if labour do win a GE. Labour's tune is already slowly changing. I work with mainly women and we discussed this yesterday. All of them are disgusted with the corruption and hypocrisy and won't be voting conservative. Why believe them on this if they lie about everything else ?

For all that I think Labour are very very wrong with their stance on this, I do think they will get to the right place eventually.
I think that's possible, but only if they don't get into power in the meantime.

I don't intend voting Tory (and I'm hoping there will be a half sensible independent candidate to save me from spoiling my vote) but I'm not going to criticise anyone who does. I think everyone has to make the best decision they can.

Nope won’t vote for him. He’s an immoral liar. It’s not ‘just cake’ ffs. It’s someone thinking they are above the laws that they created and ignoring the sacrifices of ordinary people.

I believe that labour stance on woman it misguided and poorly thought through but I think they believe they are doing the correct thing. Not on the make like the Tories. Not that I plan to vote for them either.

If I vote for someone I know to be an immoral liar what does that make me?

It's hard to remember just how mental those early days were.

I thought about this, this morning with the government's extremely expensive horrific new immigration plans.

It is impossible, I feel that if women can not be defined by their sex, they will lose their rights. But Johnson lies and lies. His government don't care about women, they care about themselves, their buddies and saving their own skins.

I think should any local politicians knocks on my door, I will tell them exactly why I don't want to vote for them.

I think partygate is damaging because it won’t go away but it’s not something that has impacted my decisions

I’ll weigh up other policies when deciding but self ID and erosion of sex based rights is a line for me.

@Kendodd that was then. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since Teresa May and self id. A lot.

It’s a sad time OP but I am with you. I mean who thought they were following the ‘rules’ anyway? I had zero doubt they weren’t. And the rules were utterly ridiculous, far too damaging and I believe put in place due to the public opinion being shit if they HADN’T put them in place. Of course they didn’t believe in the rules which is why they broke them. If the public hadn’t been screaming for lockdowns and a police state then it wouldn’t have happened anyway. Boris always wanted a more liberal way of dealing with it and honestly given the damage those damn rules have caused I believe he was right. So I understand why they broke them basically.

Now when it comes to women and girls - I have to vote for the party who will protect them. And at the moment Boris is the only leader who has spoken any sense. I think he is starting to get it.

You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?

Feeling very similar, but not convinced I can vote for him (as opposed to the C party).

At this point, what's the difference between Boris & Co and P&O? Both parties knew they were breaking the law. Both thought they'd get away with it. At least P&O owned up to it when asked directly .

If BJ & Co can blithely and knowingly break the law, and get away with just a piddly little slap on the wrist, what's to stop them playing fast and loose with other laws when it pleases them?

The problem is, if BJ & Co go, who will replace them? Would the new leadership continue the growing recognition of material reality ? Would they be any better?

You don't really describe Johnson in your OP.

It may be how you reconcile yourself with your decision, so fair enough.

For all that I think Labour are very very wrong with their stance on this, I do think they will get to the right place eventually.

I wouldn't trust Johnson as far as I can throw him. One dodgy backroom deal which benefits him, is all that it would take to change his mind.