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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My Lib Dem candidate says that you are a woman if you feel like a woman

60 replies

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 16:00

That her friend transitioned and is now a biological woman
That men with beards shouldn't be allowed in women's loos but if they look like women that is ok. That if I see a man with a beard in a womens toilet I should call the police!
That toilets should be based on what you look like not your sex
That women should be allowed to compete in women's sport as well as men in womens and that would make it fair.
Men should be allowed in M&S changing rooms (but not if you can see their penis)
And many other gems.

She wasn't aware of any womens movements or that anyone was unhappy about biological men using women's facilities.

A finally as she walked down my drive-that the Lib Dem party is mostly women and so they know about women

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Snugglepumpkin · 13/04/2022 18:03

I had some independent candidate turn up at the door who looked at me as if I'd asked him to solve Fermat's Last Theorem on the doorstep with a piece of cheese & a felt pen.

I asked him "What is a woman?"

He has gone away after announcing that nobody had ever asked him any such thing in his entire life & he couldn't possibly answer it 'just like that'.

He also told me I am the only person in the world asking about this & wasn't happy when I asked him if he'd ever read a newspaper or listened to the news.

So far, the Labour woman ran away & the Independent man was stumped.
Haven't enjoyed being door stepped this much in years.

Anglophobia · 13/04/2022 17:56

Christ on a bike, those Lib Dem talking points are beyond awful and into a whole new alternative universe. One which is both science and logic free.

But this is the one which most raises my blood pressure:

"I'm not cis because I don't have a gender identity, only sex."
Much like saying "I don't have a sexuality, I'm just straight", this confuses having the most common gender identity for someone of a particular birth sex with having no gender identity at all. Perceiving that one's gender doesn't exist separately from one's sex is simply a way of describing one's perception of being cis.

I AM NOT CIS. I am not cis precisely because I refuse to conform to my bloody gender identity. That's the whole point.

But apparently there is no escape from their tangled knot of illogic.

FemaleAndLearning · 13/04/2022 17:49

Knowing a Janet who used to be a John is not what this is about. I'm sure there are some lovely men who say they are women, but this is not about individuals.

So far I've had a telephone meeting with my conservative candidate. They knew that there were only men and women and this was based on biology. They wanted to learn more and were very receptive to the long email I sent after linking to all the relevant issues and how they related to local issues.

Just received email back from my labour candidate. They are gender critical know all the issues etc. So I feel very lucky! They were also pleased I had raised these issues I guess it means they can feed it back to The Labour Party.

Still w

LemonRedwood · 13/04/2022 17:31

That debunking guide is jaw-dropping!

Liveliferun · 13/04/2022 17:31

This is why I cancelled my husbands LD membership a few years ago. (With his knowledge obviously!)

IknowMarty · 13/04/2022 17:29

What happens if I feel like I’m the lib deb candidate for your area? Is she just out of a job?

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 17:27

@letsallchant

Is she doing any kind of public Q&A? If more people heard her give those responses, then I doubt her seat would be quite so secure.
There is a hustings of all parties but I am away (plus you have to submit questions in advance)
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ZaraSizeMedium · 13/04/2022 17:15

Some of these local candidates really are astonishing aren’t they.

I’ve had an email response from my Labour candidate today after I sent him the email from the “Respect My Sex if you Want My X” campaign. He simply says ^”This is a very difficult issue and one that I am aware is out in the media. I am unable to answer your specific comments as I have not done sufficient research into the subject to be able to respond. Sorry I’m not able to answer your questions”. In other words he’s just not arsed.

Thankfully my local Conservative and Independent councillors have provided a comprehensive response, have confirmed that they’re fully on board, they know what a woman is and the times and places where biology and safeguarding matters.

I had planned on spoiling my paper but now I’m not, and have to figure out which one is more likely to beat the Labour candidate.

letsallchant · 13/04/2022 17:05

Is she doing any kind of public Q&A? If more people heard her give those responses, then I doubt her seat would be quite so secure.

Awkwardy · 13/04/2022 17:02

Lib Dems who reject that position are fairly well organised and the movement is growing

liberalvoiceforwomen.org/blog

SprayedWithDettol · 13/04/2022 17:00

Ive always voted Lib Dem. Not now and never again unless they accept that I’m an adult human female and my sex is a protected characteristic.
From now on it’s spoiled ballots.

Ellie56 · 13/04/2022 16:56

This is part of the problem isn't it? She just assumes she will rock up and get re- elected without having to do any critical thinking.

You are a woman if you feel like a woman? Really?

She sounds batshit, completely out of touch and totally unfit to be a councillor.

SerenavanderWoodsenHumphrey · 13/04/2022 16:53

She's waaaaaay off-script, though, according to the Lib Dems' own Guide to Debunking Transphobic Talking Points:

That her friend transitioned and is now a biological woman. Fair enough - as liberals we have to let people do what they want even if it's impossible.

That men with beards shouldn't be allowed in women's loos but if they look like women that is ok. How does this work with self-ID, which the Lib Dems also push? Anyone who says he's a woman is a woman, bigot!

That if I see a man with a beard in a womens toilet I should call the police! Not allowed in Scotland. But also, beard is OK as long as its human has a penis.

That toilets should be based on what you look like not your sex More penis, anyone?

That women should be allowed to compete in women's sport as well as men in womens and that would make it fair. ??? Women are already "allowed" to compete in women's sport. Also, why are the rules different for men in women's sport (they're all welcome) versus men in women's loos (no beardies - call the cops!)?? But the real Lib Dems say that the attribute of being trans is a talent that makes some people better at sport and should not be discriminated against.

Men should be allowed in M&S changing rooms (but not if you can see their penis) Noooooo! Please stop the bigotry!! We told you before: It's a lady penis so it''s OK.

She wasn't aware of any womens movements clearly - she must have had to work quite hard to avoid history class if she's been to school! or that anyone was unhappy about biological men using women's facilities. So this little Guide to Misogyny just wrote itself, for no reason?

.... that the Lib Dem party is mostly women and so they know about women Errrrr, awkward.

EasyBreezy · 13/04/2022 16:36

Ah man, I've never really been that interested in politics before but I would love someone to turn up on my doorstep so I can quiz them about this kind of stuff, but in over a decade no-one has

ResisterRex · 13/04/2022 16:35

If someone said this to me, I'd have broken out into some late 90s Shania Twain

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 13/04/2022 16:33

@tabbycatstripy

Tired of this genital checks nonsense. People are trusted not to break the law. Trans people know what sex they are.

What your councillor is saying is that, if we invoke single sex exceptions, trans people are going to lie about their sex, and that will somehow be the fault of the people who invoked the exceptions.

We don’t do this for any other rule or law. We don’t say we can’t ban guns because - aha! How are you going to check if someone is carrying a gun? Strip them?

We make the rule or law, and we assume most people respect the rule or law. When people are suspected of not doing that, we report it and they are challenged.

Good analogy and clear explanation, thanks. I can't always think of a good example when put on the spot. I'll use this one.
SpinningMeSoftly · 13/04/2022 16:31

I think the Lib Dems are beyond muddled on this. They sound like absolute whack-jobs when they try to explain their position on same-sex spaces and 'inclusion'.

I think it started with Jo Swinson, although I'm not sure who was pushing her buttons so hard.

Daisy Cooper MP (St Albans), the new(ish) Deputy Leader of the Lib Dem Party, is - or could be - an excellent politician; but I don't know how captured she will have to pretend to be. She is a feminist and has helped many Lib Dem women over the years. She's one to watch; and I hope she doesn't cave to the gender-woo incoherency after everything she has done for women and for a better politics.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 13/04/2022 16:31

She sounds as thick as a plank and too lazy to have done any research. For those reasons alone she would not get my vote. Sadly her 'women can go to hell' views are LibDem party policy.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 16:26

Im waiting for the conservatives to rock up now. Labour dont usually come but the greens pop up occasionally.

My argument will be more cohesive- but I was slightly stunned by her lack of biological understanding and it threw me.

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PermanentTemporary · 13/04/2022 16:26

There are quite a lot of gender critical Lib Dems, in fact.

Fair enough that it's not important to her, but she might have noticed that it was important to you, since you've asked about it.

OppsUpsSide · 13/04/2022 16:24

This is why I left the Lib-Dem party years ago

tabbycatstripy · 13/04/2022 16:23

Tired of this genital checks nonsense. People are trusted not to break the law. Trans people know what sex they are.

What your councillor is saying is that, if we invoke single sex exceptions, trans people are going to lie about their sex, and that will somehow be the fault of the people who invoked the exceptions.

We don’t do this for any other rule or law. We don’t say we can’t ban guns because - aha! How are you going to check if someone is carrying a gun? Strip them?

We make the rule or law, and we assume most people respect the rule or law. When people are suspected of not doing that, we report it and they are challenged.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 16:23

@Mochudubh

Some Transmen have beards.
Yes and apparently as many women become men as men become women - so it isnt an issue.
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IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 16:22

My question to her was, What is a woman
She replied to me- You know what a woman is.
I said I do- but I would like your view.

Then it just got into a confused muddle. She honestly didn't know the difference between gender and biological sex. She thought that you biologically became female (like her friend) if you had gender re-assignment surgery (and I think she said that if you take hormones that also changes your biological sex)

And that it isnt an important issue (she said that several times)

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bebetterthanhim · 13/04/2022 16:20

She’s just not very bright is she? People with integrity and intelligence actually look into issues before forming opinions.