Trans people deserve an apology says Alicia Kearns.

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]Denton playbook all over it.

The Denton playbook is powerful.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document?s=r[/quote]
Thanks for sharing the spectator article was an interesting read.

No one else is saying it because no one else is sorry, lady.

She's my MP. Totally captured and used to post about mermaids ect all the time on her social media,although that seems to have stopped.
I wrote to her about the over reach of Stonewall, safeguarding women and children and got a load of codswallop back. She told me that I had nothing to fear from TW in women's spaces. I wrote back,pointing out that as the victim of an assualt by two men in public in broad daylight,because I asked them not to comment about me,she had no right to tell me how safe I should feel.
She's in a very safe seat,but is fast losing popularity.

Then why in all those years has none of your crack team of Kind People come up with a definition of “conversion therapy” that would make this unambiguous?

Or even identified a single practitioner of this thing you want to outlaw.

We can name a whole bunch of people doing dodgy things that should be stopped, although whether the law is the right method is debatable. Various Republican US states are busy using the law to try to stop children being given puberty blockers or surgery - they at least can point to it actually happening, and you can see those involved in it kicking up a fuss.

But for this one, we have a bunch of perfectly responsible therapists worried it will be fuzzy enough to hit them, some vague reassurances that "oh, of course it won't", but no demonstration of who it is supposed to hit apart from them.

Not to mention this political movement has a long history of creeping boundaries forward from the starting point, and exploiting every possible loophole or ambiguity to the nth degree. The Equality Act being only one example.

We live in times where laws have to be clear, defined and specific to the last decimal place. And watertight in preparation for those who would exploit them to their own purpose. Otherwise they will end up being used in ways that would not have passed the law making process. Every single damned thing foreseen in the Hansard record of the GRA debate as a possible issue has come to pass, and a whole lot more because they didn't anticipate just how far things could be pushed.

No. Take the time, do it properly, define everything , and no bad or unnecessary laws please. We're in enough of a mess as it is.

Because the ambiguity is the most crucial bit.

People need to understand this. If you have ambiguity around a supposedly clear line drawn by the law, then you get a penumbra of extra territory that people will steer clear of. Then, when you're talking about responsible therapists, they're going to make extra distance between their counselling and the penumbra. What trans activists are after is to make definitions of Conversion Therapy sufficiently unclear that responsible therapists are going to feel uncomfortable with providing any helpful exploratory non-affirmation therapy.

You don't need to find individual therapists in breach of the law to scare others off. It's akin to the "chilling effect", although this time for therapy rather than for free speech. But when this is happening those who advocated for a broad vague Conversion Therapy law will be saying "see, no therapists are falling foul of the law, all of those concerns were groundless".

this ban is not just about the penal ramifications

This ban is about preventing those who use “therapy” as a smokescreen for their homophobic or transphobic exorcisms. No one else has anything to fear from a ban.

Yeah right. Stonewall and TRAs don't exactly have the track record for us to believe this.

Because the ambiguity is the most crucial bit.

Be nice . It's probably just a nice wooden horse.

I’ve spent years working to secure this important ban, including with religious leaders of all faiths. Everyone is clear: this is not about enforcing affirmative-only therapy.

Then why in all those years has none of your crack team of Kind People come up with a definition of “conversion therapy” that would make this unambiguous? Fuck off and write one instead of wanging on like this.

If apologies are being handed out over this mess, we can start with children, homosexual people, females, and detransitioners who may be all three of the above.

Kearns may well be ignorant of much of the material reality and the prior history of what is actually meant in this discussion.

God help us all.

I am so DONE with this level of stupidity.

It all leads back to the medical profession. First and foremost, medics need to apologise to trans people for setting this very vulnerable group of people up with false expectations of what they can expect from transition and the extent to which other people will perceive and treat them as the opposite sex.

Then the profession needs to apologise to women. All of this started with medics breezily encouraging trans people into women's spaces, completely overlooking women's human rights to privacy and dignity. Everyone else who has chipped away at women's rights took their cue from the fact that a respected and regulated profession thought it was fine to do so. So the profession owes women an apology for unleashing this now decade-long assault on their rights.

"Anyone questioning their sexuality or gender identity, deserves explorative, challenging and critical conversations with accredited and regulated individuals."

Yes obviously they do Alicia and this is why any legislation has to be carefully worded to make sure this happens and isn't classed as 'conversion therapy'. Is she really that stupid.

I think Kearns is a Tory MP!

Oh

Thank you, Icake.

I think we need another name for so called conversion therapy as it applies to transporter. We're playing by Stonewall's rules, it makes it easier to conflait with gay conversion therapy. Like, 'you're not trans, and, even if you are, you won't be by the time I've finished with you'.

How about 'confirmation therapy'. As in let's confirm this is really what you want/need. It's close enough to 'affirmation' but different enough to keep everyone on board.

I do think there are a number of people who have real issues like sex dysphoria who have been given bad advice and unrealistic expectations, and have made serious unalterable decisions made on the basis of said advice and expectations. And they absolutely deserve an apology. In some cases they are people who really needed clear guidance because they weren't in a position to sort through it all themselves and they've basically been sacrificed to try and push an agenda.

I think 'adults' is a metaphor for people, especially.lawmakers, who should, and probably do, know better. People, even trans people, should not be indulged like spoiled toddlers. It makes it harder for everyone when they eventually are told 'no'.

or are you talking about children?

They can apologise to the NB and TM, too. But most of all, they need to apologise to male people who have been told they have an absolute right to female spaces, because they don’t.