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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conversion therapy policy treats trans people like second-class citizens

34 replies

Igneococcus · 11/04/2022 06:36

Says Dr Zoe Greaves chairwoman of the British Medical Association medical ethics committee in the Times. She is of course conflating LGB and T while not telling us what conversion theraby for transpeople actucally is:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05d0d406-b8df-11ec-94e5-2197dead5942?shareToken=3a846c7a3bee13e23382a1a0373848b0

OP posts:
ChopinBoard · 11/04/2022 08:38

Can someone paste a few comments please? I haven't been able to view comments for months and it always sounds like they're the best bit!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2022 08:30

What a dire article - scary that someone from the BMA shows such levels of ignorance.
The comments are on fire!

Maladicta · 11/04/2022 08:24

The comments are heartening, and certainly show very little agreement with their argument. Lots of questions over ‘do no harm’ and whether Zoe’s opinions reflect this.

JellySaurus · 11/04/2022 08:01

But using treatment regimes that have not been tested or properly assessed, that cause irreversible damage to their bodies, to 'treat' children because their sense of self differs from the norm - that is acceptable?

No other treatment regimes are applied to patients, especially not to children, without rigorous assessment of the consequences and effectiveness.

We know that proper psychological assessments and talking therapies are crucial in treating non-physical conditions, as well as in supporting the treatment of many physical conditions. Why are children who profess a trans identity being treated as second-class citizens by being denied these, and instead being given off-licence drugs whose usefulness for this purpose has never been properly assessed?

IsItShining · 11/04/2022 07:38

That’s such a poorly written sentence.

Is the mildly interested reader to take it as ‘ban, on the grounds that conversion therapy could be harmful’ or ‘scrap, on the grounds that a ban could be harmful’?

ResisterRex · 11/04/2022 07:30

I wouldn't go on the record, in the newspaper of record, with this. There are a lot of things wrong with it but the main one is no definition of "trans conversion therapy". And this:

"The government has scrapped plans to ban trans “conversion therapy” on the grounds that it would be harmful for children who have doubts about their gender. However, there is currently scarce evidence to suggest that this is the case."

Is disingenuous. And I imagine, quite upsetting to detransitioners.

SallyLockheart · 11/04/2022 07:13

I think the Cass report will be key here and the Government will hopefully wait for the final report before taking further decisions.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 11/04/2022 06:58

It is unethical and harmful to individuals and to wider society to perpetuate the idea that being lesbian, gay, bi or trans is a mental illness that must be “cured”.

One of these things requires medical treatment. One of these things is not the same.

one in seven trans people report they have been offered or have had “conversion therapy”, making them the most vulnerable group subjected to the practice.

Was a clear definition given as to what form this conversion therapy took? Otherwise, given the routine hyperbole demonstrated by many transactivists, it seems quite possible that the “conversion therapy” offered was any treatment that wasn’t instant affirmation.

The government has scrapped plans to ban trans “conversion therapy” on the grounds that it would be harmful for children who have doubts about their gender. However, there is currently scarce evidence to suggest that this is the case.

Clearly defining in the legislation what is and isn’t covered by “conversion therapy” will leave room for actual therapeutic services for trans people, or those who are still exploring their gender identity and in need of psychological support.

Congratulations, Zoe Greaves. The fact that it wasn’t clearly defined, alongside the suspicion that the vagueness was wholly deliberate, was exactly why this has been put on hold. Possibly once the Cass report is complete, it will be possible to make this definition clear. My understanding was that the intent was to delay until the situation was clarified, which seems reasonable, given the current situation.

This decision comes at a time when healthcare services for trans people are inadequate, with many trans people experiencing gruelling long waits to access gender identity development services. Long waits to access services make trans people vulnerable to being forced or persuaded to use so-called corrective therapy that is designed to suppress their identity.

So do the right thing and improve services. Don’t take the lazy path of bringing in a law which is indirectly assumed to help, when there is no evidence it will make a difference and, in the proposed form, was more likely to have caused harm.

If the government leaves out trans people from the legislation banning “conversion therapy”, this will make it an outlier among other jurisdictions that have banned the practice on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity.

Well perhaps, in time, Britain will be seen to have been a leading light in applying common sense and nuance to this debate, rather than following like sheep, when it appears to many that the sheep are heading towards a cliff. There’s a strong possibility that failing to consider the unintended (by politicians, though likely not transactivists) side-effects of bringing in poorly thought out laws with ill-defined terminology will result in harm to many children.

tabbycatstripy · 11/04/2022 06:48

This is so disingenuous. The legislation only ever proposed to ban ‘conversion talking therapies’ for people under 18. There was never a legislative proposal to prevent trans adults from seeking out talking therapies of any kind.

So this whole controversy is about kids. Kids who can’t legally go through a gender reassignment process anyway.

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