Times on Sex Matters survey: 8 in 10 teachers say their secondary school has trans or non-binary pupils

‘It really seems to be either entrenchment or naivety. I am not sure which at this point.’

Zealotry. Nobody who wasn’t 100% convinced by this stuff would ignore the things parents are saying here.

On both counts,like it or not, the people/ bodies that matter disagree with you.

So what?

We are parents who are actively engaged with making positive changes. Positive changes through attempting to force 'neutrality' in how facts around this issue is taught. Tolerance is important yes.

However, let's keep remembering Dr Hilary Cass' statement that even social transitioning is not a neutral intervention.

Do you agree that it is not a neutral intervention?

Do you agree that the current guidance may actually be wrong where local authorities have adopted 'affirming' only practices?

Do you agree that when the Cass report is finally published, that guidance is likely to change? Of course, if that happens, all of a sudden what we have been saying here will actually be mirroring guidance?

Why are you so entrenched in believing that parents and posters on this thread are wrong and the schools have it 'right'? It really seems to be either entrenchment or naivety. I am not sure which at this point.

My 14 year old daughter says that children who don't fall in line with the trans ideology are bullied and called names by other students. She says that they are saying that JK Rowling is evil.

What do our teachers here say to that? Is that acceptable? Is it acceptable that children are accusing other children of being transphobic for saying that biological sex is real?
Is it acceptable that they are bullying other children and saying that JK Rowling is evil? Is it acceptable that children are being silenced by their classmates?

Totally agree with the comment about the schools promoting this - posters, events and special days. Its appalling indoctrination and most people don't believe it but have silenced by this phobic allegation - parents have been alienated if they don't agree with the agenda. It is appalling how the minority have taken a hold

‘On both counts,like it or not, the people/ bodies that matter disagree with you.’

The DfE agrees with me. Watch.

For the love of god walksen, listen to what we're saying.

You started off saying this is not being taught in schools. It is. It's been taught to you! The equality act is explicit about what homosexuality means, and it's based on sex. Not gender.

Lesbians do not have penises. Young lesbian girls are being persecuted and told they are wrong for being same-sex attracted.

This is happening.

You've even tried to invoke section 28! You've used homosexuality and the persecution of gay men and women, as a means to bolster your argument. When actually, your argument doesn't believe in homosexuality.

I understand that you might be new to this. And I understand that you may not have encountered it much in the wild, as it were. And as a supply teacher I can also understand, although I disagree, you not wanting to get involved.

But don't, for the love of God, come on here and tell off the parents of children who are suffering, as a result of this ideology.

Make yourself more aware. Understand the part, however small, you are playing in this.

Your earlier claims feel somewhat out of sync with your current 'only following orders and teaching pre-determined materials into which I have no input' stance.

As usual Embarassing you are able to succinctly parse my rambling into one concise sentence.

", I’ll agree that it’s okay to teach kids that.

Until then, yes, they are wrong, and you are unfit to teach (because you pretend it’s not your job to teach kids things that are supported by that thing we can evidence)." Like religion, then?

On both counts,like it or not, the people/ bodies that matter disagree with you.

Similarly. One could start from a position that schools are not full of trans activists. They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

And we continue with the 'absolutism'. It really is just another way to block discussion.

Please feel free to copy and paste any post that is accusing all teachers and schools of being full of trans activists.

And please do stop with the minimising of the school's responsbilities here.

They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

Really fuck off with that. Schools should not be mirroring 'trends' at all. Particularly not harmful ones. They should be teaching facts and they should be not 'preaching' any particular 'side' of this debate. It IS teacher's faults if they are indeed teaching difficult concepts in ways that can be misinterpreted.

That comment of yours is still following the same lines as 'you are conspiracy theorists' and 'offensive'.

Your earlier claims feel somewhat out of sync with your current 'only following orders and teaching pre-determined materials into which I have no input' stance.

Homosexuality is a fact. Nobody ever denied that people were attracted to others of the same sex (until recently). The prohibition against teaching it was moralistic, and morals can shift.

Scientific fact can also shift, so when it is shown that there is such a thing as ‘gender identity’ that exists as an identifiable part of the human biological or psychological structure for every person, I’ll agree that it’s okay to teach kids that.

Until then, yes, they are wrong, and you are unfit to teach (because you pretend it’s not your job to teach kids things that are supported by that thing we can evidence).

With the added outside influences especially social media it's even more of a reason teachers should be dealing in facts, instead they are dealing with opinion, in mine it's just a one sided one unfortunately.

It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can

I personally don't believe that schools can resolve all these issues. However, I also believe that this issue is being poorly handled in some schools. I have had discussions with my teen's school and on their handling of 'gender identities' they are very brief, matter of fact and focus hugely on 'consent' instead.

However, they have still changed at least two student's records that I know of without parental consent. That should not be happening and I disagree with this approach.

I also have great sympathy for teachers in how they can deal with this issue. Because they are given some pretty biased guidance by lobby groups and often it is well-meaning. But the issue is treating parents who are telling you there is issues in the way you have demonstrated on this thread.

but many people jumped to the conclusion I am an activist and it should clear by now that I am anything but

Again, why should we trust you after you have rolled out activist lines and denigrated posters on this thread? Not only name calling, but also using false activist comparators such as Section 28.

Do you realise that use of those false comparators are designed to silence discussion through shaming posters? Was that not your intention in using Section 28 comparisons when that is false?

You say you are 'not an activist', yet your posts most certainly do reflect activist style of communication.

"You are simply wrong about your obligations here"

At the risk of being accused of an activist again

Homosexuality was not taught in schools when it was illegal but that changed. Over timr sexual orientation became protected and more and more work is done on homophobia but it still happens.

Discussions and what is taught in schools mirrors the debates and policies that are occurring in the wider world about trans and gender critical issues and will continue to change as those debates do .

I am not in charge or in any position to influence these policies, regardless of whether you think I should. Are all the governing bodies and wrong as well?

‘One could argue that these organisations are influential in hay and trans communities etc and inviting them to share their idealogy which helps people relate to members of those communities.’

Being influential doesn’t give anyone a position to teach their ideology to children as fact.

‘Using a previous posters analogy about religion. We teach kids about the beliefs of different religions, often at quite a superficial level.’

Yep. We tell the children these things are BELIEFS that SOME PEOPLE hold and that they are not obligated to participate in.

‘That doesn,'t mean we are trying to convert anyone.’

If you teach it as fact it does.

"Schools are not doing ‘what they can’ by inviting in Mermaids and Stonewall to teach kids unscientific tripe using the Genderbread person"

One could argue that these organisations are influential in hay and trans communities etc and inviting them to share their idealogy which helps people relate to members of those communities.

Using a previous posters analogy about religion. We teach kids about the beliefs of different religions, often at quite a superficial level

That doesn,'t mean we are trying to convert anyone.

‘They mirror trends and changes in society.’

Schools are meant to teach facts and discuss political issues in a neutral way.

You are simply wrong about your obligations here.

"So, starting from the point that they are not 'offensive conspiracy theorist' would actually be a good place. And tolerant too"

Similarly. One could start from a position that schools are not full of trans activists. They mirror trends and changes in society. It is not teachers fault you are not happy with these trends...

‘It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can’

Schools are not doing ‘what they can’ by inviting in Mermaids and Stonewall to teach kids unscientific tripe using the Genderbread person.

Look, this is not difficult.

“There is a range of legitimate opinion about the nature of gender. Some people believe it’s innate and immutable, other people think it’s fluid, other people don’t recognise the concept.

Sex is binary and immutable.’

Done.

What exactly is the issue, if you put bias aside?

"I think you will find that alot of kids that don't agree with it or might want to ask a question don't bring it up because they are scared of how their peers might view them, they don't want to look 'transphobic.'
This is a failure of schools."

I don't doubt it a d issues like these crop up at breaktimes, social media etc and have to be picked up at school.

Schools are a microcosm of society. These beliefs percolate through from parents, TV, Twitter etc. Adults in society disagree vehemently on issues such as single sex spaces and transphobia etc. It's a bit naive to think that schools can resolve all of these issues but they do what they can

And yet I have been accused by many of bring a trans activist regardless, because that is what many posters on here believe is shaping policy in schools. Clearly I'm not and neither are my colleagues....

There's no contradiction here - you don't have to be a biblical scholar or theologian or priest to be a Christian. Even if you're just handing out the prayer books and taking the collection, you're a Christian.

Same thing for trans activists - some are deep in the gender theory, some are just participating in the rituals or denunciations without a deep understanding.

(It's clear from seeing most trans activist protests that the protesters generally have a very shallow understanding of their cause, or their opponents. This seems to be the norm, not the exception).

"We are telling you what is happening and you seem to be denying that it happens"

I am also telling you what is happening and it is not trans activist teachers deliberately putting pupils at risk. In my experience pastoral teams do the best they can for all pupils under difficult circumstances. Posters may feel that is not the case but it isn't except I suppose in a minority of cases. No teachers I've met would be their beliefs whether pro trans or gender critical would put their beliefs in a child and do not make decisions in isolation anyway. Mistakes may be made but I would utterly refute that it is due to trans activism.

I haven't lied in any of my posts, nor pretended or claimed to be more knowledgeable then I am, but many people jumped to the conclusion I am an activist and it should clear by now that I am anything but. Project that on to 99% of teachers.

(As a supply teacher this is generally the case. I can only make certain tweaks and add verbal calcifications

Sure. And what do you do to make sure that the material is actually understood?

You know, you do have the power as a teacher to approach the local authority if you think something is unclear and needs to be better supported. You actually would have quite a bit of opportunity to make sure material is not being misinterpreted in a harmful way.

And that if parents bring up valid points, they might well be doing it because they actually do know what they are talking about.

So, starting from the point that they are not 'offensive conspiracy theorist' would actually be a good place. And tolerant too.

‘A child at my kids school thought they were being 'inclusive' by saying that people no matter their sexual orientation should have sex with transwomen.’

This is so upsetting.