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Original poster

Lord Herbert: Royal Commission to remove trans debate from politics?

88 replies

tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 10:38

Nick Herbert, Johnson’s LGBT advisor, suggests a Royal Commission ‘led by a senior judge, [to] comprise members who are “truly neutral”, and be founded with “cross-party support and without predetermination of its direction or outcome”’ to make decisions on the trans debate.

In the Twitter discussion below this announcement, there are four or five male members of the HoL discussing whether this would work (some for, some against).

I am absolutely against this. These issues aren’t for ‘neutral’ anyone to decide in secret. As Lord Lucas says, they need full transparency and democratic engagement. They are the stuff of politics, not questions to be removed from the unwashed masses and dictated to us by Stonewall-trained judges.

Could he look more out of touch?

OP posts:
Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 12:38

‘You know I can’t help thinking the if EB mum had had a successful sports career of her own we wouldn’t be here 🙄’

Her behaviour is a bit much. Emily is 21, not 12. Why is she ‘messaging’ (emailing?) Jacinda Ardern?

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Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 10/04/2022 12:36

Apparently the last royal commission was 2000 into the House of Lords reform

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/labours-manifesto-fails-recognise-royal-commissions-are-past-their-sell-date

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 10/04/2022 12:34

No worries Spinning 😊😊

You know I can’t help thinking the if EB mum had had a successful sports career of her own we wouldn’t be here 🙄

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 10/04/2022 12:26

Thing is with a Royal Commission, the government sets the terms of reference and I would be concerned who would try to infiltrate that process given how hapless the Cabinet is.

Would the APPG chaired by Crispin Blunt try to muscle in? The Select Committee chaired by Caroline Nokes? Stonewalled civil servants? Would this lead to tussles with Truss and Badenoch and more flouncing by TQ+?

How would true impartiality be achieved and demonstrated?

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 12:20

Emily Bridges’ mum revealing true self again:

‘Nick Herbert claims here that there are "genuine concerns" about trans athletes in Sport. All ministers across all UK home nations knew Em would be eligble to compete. Because I messaged them. Around a year ago. I also reached out to PM Arden in NZ.’

Ladies, gentlemen and non-binary folk: the ego has landed.

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EwwSprouts · 10/04/2022 12:16

Independent lol
Wants to take it out of politics until there are more of the right type of politicians.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lord-herbert-britain-needs-more-trans-people-in-public-life-including-the-commons-ntr88g6xv

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 12:14

‘It would all be a lot more orderly if they’d just listen to the concerns of the majority of their voters and adjust policy accordingly.’

With the caveat that the majority can be wrong. If the majority wanted to detransition trans people (ignoring ten year olds for a minute) then I would oppose that on human rights grounds. But the government has to be able to distinguish between legitimate human rights claims and overreach that affects everyone else negatively (like this).

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GrimDamnFanjo · 10/04/2022 12:14

What makes gender so special that this is required ?
Has there been any comparable policy examination for other issues?

Neverreturntoathread · 10/04/2022 12:10

@tabbycatstripy

It’s just undemocratic. We have bodies to make decisions about which laws we should make, and we have bodies to enforce the law. Let’s not mix them up.
This.

The thing is, when you ignore democracy, you end up with a worse mess. Britain’s path to Brexit began in 2010 when a voter (Gillian Duffy) told Gordon Brown thet she was very worried about immigration, and instead of hearing and engaging with her concerns, he carelessly dismissed her as an irrelevant “bigoted woman”.

Gordon Brown is not Prime Minister anymore.

When politicians ignore voters’ concerns because they don’t share those concerns, those concerns do not go away.

The Stonewall-owned politicians can ignore women and tell us what we ought to think, but that doesn’t actually change what we think. And when the government ignores a huge proportion of its electorate, the government falls.

It would all be a lot more orderly if they’d just listen to the concerns of the majority of their voters and adjust policy accordingly.

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 10/04/2022 12:09

Yes, I fucked up and read 'his thread' as 'this thread' Blush

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 12:07

I wondered if that meant the replies on the Twitter thread.

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SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 10/04/2022 12:07

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

MASSIVE APOLOGIES

I misread your post

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 10/04/2022 12:06

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

The replies to his thread highlight exactly why discussion seems to be impossible
We're having a discussion on the thread. How does a discussion highlight why discussion seems impossible? Is it the wrong discussion or something?
Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 12:02

Oh my god, the replies. Can’t they see they are not convincing people? “No common ground with extremist terfs...” [who want women to have the right to refuse a cavity search from a male officer]

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Loopytiles · 10/04/2022 11:59

The matters are inherently political, so it’s inappropriate to suggest to ‘take politics out of it’.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:59

It would need to be led by a woman for me to feel it wasn’t same-old men deciding in women’s rights.

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DontAskIDontKnow · 10/04/2022 11:57

Do we think there’s a chance that the Royal Commission will have 50% female representation? Or would that not be considered neutral?

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:54

I’m going to do what I don’t do often and change my mind (provisionally). He seems serious. Maybe it’s worth doing.

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Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 10/04/2022 11:54

The replies to his thread highlight exactly why discussion seems to be impossible

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:51

And he says LGBT organisations have been “shouty”.

The man’s right about that.

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Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:47

I’ll be charitable to him as well. He’s put forward a long thread telling his own allies some unpalatable facts. A culture war is a war they won’t win. Public opinion isn’t behind them. Talking about biology isn’t transphobic. It’s imperative that this issue doesn’t follow the direction the debate has taken in the US.

He’s a smart man. I just don’t agree with his conclusion. There’s been enough secrecy and back-room deal-making. Women don’t trust that that will work.

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jumpedintwice · 10/04/2022 11:47

I don't think he understand what politics is, or democracy. How can you remove an issue from politics when it's subject to heated debate, strong views and affects many people's lives? The idea of 'neutrality' here is arrogant, patronising nonsense. You might just as well remove poverty, education, taxation or criminal justice from politics.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:42

Exactly. ‘Political’ isn’t a bad thing. If he means the government just trying to stick it to Labour, then unfortunately that’s because Labour made this issue political. They didn’t listen to their voters but to their activists.

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Rightsraptor · 10/04/2022 11:39

What do we mean by 'politics'? I take it to mean relating to the government or affairs of a country. Women fighting to maintain our rights is intrinsically political. I have no idea what else Herbert thinks it is. And yes, as others here have said, it's the government and other public institutions' capitulation to Stonewall that has got us into this mess

I'll be charitable towards Herbert, who lives up to his name I see, and assume he means party political.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 11:17

But Herbert is taking fire from both sides, it’s fair to say.

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