Why do Labour women make this so much worse than it need be?

Because it seems like you are saying it's ok to call people names and condemn whole large groups of voters just so long as it isn't related to the ideas you happen to agree with.

your a voter, why are you acting like its a football team your supporting?

saying your a socialist or capitalist is fine, thats not the same, you might vote for any number of parties that support your views that are either socialist or capitalist.

claiming your a tory or more exactly taken affront at people insulting tories is stupid, as I said before johnson wouldnt piss on you if you was on fire, if they bulldozed all the houses on your road to build a motorway do you think they'd care how any of the residents had voted?

no of course they wouldnt so why are you counting yourself as one of them? when I start talking about my political leanings I say I am a socialist or I am a lefty, I dont say I am the Labour party, I have voted for them more often then not, but I have also not voted for them, like now under starmer I wont touch them and I didnt vote for blair either, because I'm a socialist.

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@TedsFederationRep hello fellow GC Tory woman who can get along with people of any political persuasion if they're reasonable and respect womens rights 🙋‍♀️[/quote]

Hello @roarfeckingroarr!

I must confess, when I saw the notification alert, my first thought was "Here we go. Abuse for admitting to being an evil Tory".

For those who find it hard to see past the label though, let me explain a few things about how I got here - because I wasn't born a Conservative, you know. I've voted Labour and LibDem in the past too.

I live in a very marginal marginal. It's either Conservative or LibDem - no other party gets a look-in - and the result is always on a knife edge. In 2017 and 2019, my choice was stark. Conservative woman who made it clear that she put children first but said little about identity politics...or LibDem transwoman whose avowed aim was to get into the House of Commons so he could focus all of his attentions - and I mean ALL - on bringing in Self ID and on binning the spousal consent clause for trans widows.

The Conservatives weren't the best fit for my political views but I had to make a choice and wasting my vote wasn't an option. He would have slipped in through the back door.

So what, oh left wing voting women, would you have done?

So I didn't just vote Conservative but - sit down or you'll faint with shock - I actually joined the Conservative Party. It was doing a lot of fence sitting then - Theresa May, Maria Miller and Penny Mordaunt were openly advocating "TWAW so BeKind" - but as a party member, it meant I could canvass for my Conservative candidate and act as a teller at the local polling station where I was called Tory bitch and motherf*** for my troubles by the few men who slunk past me sporting their red rosettes while completely failing to make eye contact.

Since 2017, I've dinned the ear of my Conservative MP at regular and frequent intervals about women's rights and about the dismantling of child safeguarding, and did the same with my Tory county councillor. I shamelessly used my party membership to influence grassroots thinking in the party and gradually persuaded the local constituency party to move from the stance of BeKind to openly GC.

When I joined the Women's Rights Network some time ago, it was a joy to find myself in the company of gender critical and radfem women and - even more then that - to find that some of them had done exactly what I had done. They had joined the Labour Party, the LibDems, the Greens, to counteract gender ideology from the inside.

None of us find our parties a perfect fit. I certainly don't. But we work with what we've got, and we network and we work cross-party and we stand shoulder to shoulder on defending and protecting women, girls and children.

If anyone wants to pick holes in that and call me an evil Tory, that's up to them. I couldn't give a monkeys, frankly. Right now, I'm too busy being vigilant, making sure my Conservative MP and councillor don't falter, and lobbying Dominic Raab to get TW out of women's prisons and Sajid Javid to get Annex B dropped by NHS Trusts. Oh, and making sure that Penny "TWAW" Mordaunt doesn't get a sniff in the next leadership contest.

As I’ve become more interested and involved in the issue of gender identity politics and the trans overreach into erasing women’s rights I’ve also had a shift in my own political prejudices and assumptions.

I see people throwing labels like ‘Tory Scum’ again on this thread and I wonder how that really differs from having labels like ‘bigoted TERF’ thrown at us. It’s as bad as throwing ‘racist anti-Semite’ at all Labour voters too.

I’m learning to be more intellectually curious about other peoples opinions and motivations. I’m learning to apply critical thinking to all sides of an argument, not just those I immediately disagree with. I now question all information sources, including those I may have trusted in the past.

So this is going to degenerate into the same old arguments, then. Siiigggghh

I remember years back seeing university debate in the UK that got deplatformed and so they held it off campus. The two speakers were Julie Bindel and Milo Yiannopolus, and the lefty students union were more upset about Julie than Milo. And the debate, which is up on YouTube, is a bit rowdy but Julie gives a good account of herself and gets a few laughs too.

Point being that GC women tend to be formidable people who can look after themselves, so they aren't worried about going into hostile spaces and fighting the good fight. That comes from having the courage of your convictions.

The loony left, which the TWAW lobby are part of, do not have that. Even when supporting GC views, they act like this is just the new fad that is just as untenable as the TWAW position.

when I say the tories are scum I am talking about tories, mogg, johnson etc.

if your a voter who gets offended I would be looking at myself hard in the mirror and asking why I identify as a tory?. your a voter, thw tories wouldnt piss on you if you was on fire, your get shafted if your poor by their polices same as the labour voters.

your a voter, perhaps a conservative voter, but while I shout the tories are scum, it would not cross my mind how you identify, I identify as a socialist, I have voted labour, I also voteed green and lib dem, monster raving loony, yogic flyers etc as the fancy takes me depending on what the offereing is when its time to vote and how they are all behaving at that time. which aligns closest to my socialist views.

if your a live long tory voter whos never voted anything else, I'd question how engaged in politics you are that you just blindly follow like a football supporter.

I like unherd! I think it has a great mix of opinion. I think Freddie Sayers is a great interviewer too. He has an interesting video on the site atm with a Ukrainian national in Shanghai currently and in the expo centre there due to the covid lockdown. She’s been there 10 days already and no clue when she might be able to leave.

@TedsFederationRep hello fellow GC Tory woman who can get along with people of any political persuasion if they're reasonable and respect womens rights 🙋‍♀️

Actually...did you mean to post that in this thread, tangerine. It seems to have little to do with the OP. Unless you are giving us an illustrative example of Labour supporters being puritanical bullies? If so, good show.

@Tangerinedreamisatheme this thing is, it doesn’t really matter whether Boris DOES anything.

All he has to do, is throw a few sound bites out and keep the law exactly a sit already stands.

The ‘sound bites’ make it more acceptable for everyone to talk about fanatical gender ideology, and exactly what it means. It also makes it less acceptable to ostracise anyone, particular women for holding those views. How can you lose your job for saying something that the prime minister himself says on television?

They are also easy for Johnson to stick to (we KNOW that he know exactly what a woman is) and simultaneously make him look honest, as he is taking the side of reality and fact, and make Labour look like lunatics.

He doesn’t have to go to any effort re: legislation. He can just leave the law as he is and organisations, when they see where the wind is blowing, will start to fear legal/financial reprisals if they keep trying to magically think the law away.

It’s a win/win for the Tory party.

So no, I don’t think Boris will suddenly ‘U-turn’ and start pretending he believes men can become women, this is far too good a thing to hold over Labour at the next election:

‘Look, how can you trust Kier to lead the country. He thinks women can have a penis, men can grow a cervix, children should be sterilised and rapists should be put in prisons with women’.

For the umpteenth time:

Saying you don't want to vote Labour =/= voting Conservative!

And even if some people do, that's their choice, which they are entitled to, and if you're annoyed with anyone, be annoyed with Labour for fucking up and fucking people off.

To me what's important are actions. Johnson may say these things but the guy is hardly honourable is he ? Levelling up ? Still waiting. End to austerity ? No way, still happening. Help with fuel bills ? Turns out to be a loan. Lockdown rules ? Nah, not for the likes of us. And then you've got the shit show that is brexit, the lies, obfuscation etc
I'm just incredulous at the number of women falling over themselves to want to vote for them on the basis of one comment so obviously designed to stir things up. Women convinced that this time 'Boris' really means it when history shows he rarely does anything without some underhand motivation.
Why do intelligent women suddenly believe Johnson has acquired a moral backbone but labour can't ? Wes Streeting has made several comments indicating a possible change in direction, as has Starmer and Rachel Reeves. They may not sound as convincing as Johnson but then he is an accomplished liar and doesn't give hoots about dropping women in the shit.

I admire people like you, Pluvia, who have spoken up on social media and persisted despite all the abuse. Well done especially for finally converting a bunch of hard cases.

It must be galling to have these dimwits now toeing a new line and telling you how to do GC properly. But I am seriously excited to hear that GC is becoming the new position to take.

I have to admit that before all of this I just considered ‘free speech’ to be a racist/ignorant dog whistle.

Ah yes, freeze peach as they sarcastically call it.

Oh I've just remembered that I unfollowed Glinner for being 'transphobic'. I did apologise directly to him.

I thankfully never fell out with any real life friends.

You have to give them a bit more time I think.

I was the same. Unless a miracle from the heavens smacks Labour in the face, I’ll probably be voting Tory at the next election.

The slowly dawning realisation that the ‘good’ guys were either silent or actively taking part in the verbal abuse/ rape and death threats towards me…because I didn’t agree with 100% of their views. And then just as shockingly, that the selfish ‘evil’ side were being reasonable, and we’re starting to listen to women, publishing the stories and condemning any who didn’t allow free speech.

I have to admit that before all of this I just considered ‘free speech’ to be a racist/ignorant dog whistle.

I was a lefty decades ago and I think I probably behaved a bit like this too if I’m honest. I see their behaviour and I think to myself was I really one of them and did I really behave like this. I think I probably did.

Has anyone who did this to people that they still know apologised to them? If you don't still know them but could locate them, would you apologise?

I was a lefty decades ago and I think I probably behaved a bit like this too if I’m honest. I see their behaviour and I think to myself was I really one of them and did I really behave like this. I think I probably did.

Same, and I know I did - thankfully I confined it to twitter though.

For me, the GC awakening came first, then the awareness of purity spirals as people I'd previously held in high regard dug in their heels and became nasty and illogical. It may be the same for your friends, OP. Although I totally understand your anger - it's not bloody fair at all is it?

Both sides are as bad as each other because they are made up of people and people can be cold and analytical (I like those people) others can be disingenuous white knights, evil greedy bastards, kind and generous etc.

each side left and right will attract its percentage of these people, they will ebb and flow in personality traits depending on the leadership of the party and their conduct and policies.

but ultimately the left is left, the centre is useless, the right is right and if you go too far left or too far right you end up in the same place, fascism. dictatorship, authoritarianism etc.

at the moment the right is bloody awful and the left isnt far behind.