Nancy writes for The Guardian

Can anyone remember conversion therapy being such a massive headline, all or nothing, demo in the streets issue for Stonewall and their equivalents in other white majority Western countries when the main victims of it were homosexual people from what are in the UK, minority religious cultures? No, me neither. Coincidentally, women (and men) from those cultures are also now given nowhere to go, literally, by Stonewall and co's mixed sex toilets, changing rooms, hospitals, sports sessions and the like policy push.

In 2021, the board of Pride in London resigned after allegations that the organisation had a hostile environment for volunteers of colour. And this week we see Britain's LGBTQ organisations forcing the cancellation of a conference about global LGBTQ+ people's safety, 'safe to be me', because they want to prioritise medically transitioning children here over executions, beatings and imprisonments in other countries.

To be even more off topic, I’d like to point out that the 1970s are only, like, about 20 years ago thank you very much shut up! 😂

ECT is interesting - it was initially seen as a magical way to cure many patients. I suspect families were told their relatives would commit suicide if they didn't have it.
Better a child undergo ECT than a dead child. But when it was properly assessed it was found in most cases to cause harm. It only helped in a small number of cases where other therapies failed. It shows the vital importance of evidence based treatment.

I wonder if there might be any parallels that can be drawn here with children with gender dysphoria??

Many, many women and disabled people were treated with ECT in years gone by. In our lifetimes people with mild learning disabilities lived their whole lives inside mental hospitals.
Women who did not conform to society's, or their families, notions of how they should live their lives were incarcerated too. And received ECT. Nowadays these girls are put on medical pathway, playing with their endocrine system with untested drugs, and encouraged to mutilate their bodies.
This is just as horrifying as ECT. Its the opposite of kind.

We’re often told on on this board that we need to get out and meet some trans people cause we’d find they aren’t that scary. I honestly think NK needs to get out and meet some gender critical people cause I think she’d find we’re not recommending what she says we are.

Bit difficult when she keeps cancelling from everything mind.

This is horrible untrue messaging for many reasons not least the demonisation of ECT which is an excellent treatment for life threatening severe depression.

When given for depression the patient is anaesthetised and doesn't know they are having a shock or a seizure. They do not experience anything unpleasant beyond having an anaesthetic.
ECT is 80% effective for severe psychotic depression which nothing else is. Arguably it's a lot less cruel than the drugs that would be the alternative or being left to suffer to the point of suicide.
People I have known who were treated with ECT often ask for it again in subsequent episodes as it is so effective and with modern methods side effects are few.
Most people who have it consent very willingly to have it. In the very few cases where someone does not they would be catatonic or psychotic and unable to give valid consent, it would be done to save life and an independent second opinion would be required by law. There are massive safeguards in the MHA law to protect against misuse of ECT already.

The 'electric shock' aversion therapy the TAs are taking about has nothing at all to do with ECT and is not a recognised treatment that would ever ever be used by any licensed practitioner in the U.K.
There is obviously no need for a law against it as it is not legal now anyway.

Bringing ECT into this is abhorrent as it will put patients and their families off a life saving intervention

How can the head of an organisation disseminate misinformation and disinformation in this way.

It's either that or she genuinely has no idea at all about what's involved and hasn't troubled herself to read up about it. I can't think that she's even attempting to conflate the US and UK on this point (as so often happens).

Is there no point at all at which Stonewall's Advisory Board (they have one) will start phoning/emailing her and asking for a near time conversation? They must ask for this embarrassment of an article to be withdrawn.

I would actually say that the church hasn’t been stonewalled. But (thankfully) it is increasingly less homophobic in many parts of the church - just the extreme end left. I am on the governing body of the c of e. The issue is trying to get that distinction out there re conversion therapy for trans being not conversion therapy but not yielding to immediate yes you must be the opposite gender without seeming homophobic. Because obv gay conversion therapy is horrific. I am doing my best to influence the right people and the stonewall agenda itself is resisted. It’s just that those who are not homophobic just don’t quite ‘get it’ re trans stuff yet unfortunately hence that awful letter. I will see what I can do re that.

Current ECT is a treatment of last resort for some of the most clinically depressed people. It is a treatment of choice, no professional enthusiastically suggests it, or administers it. It's done under general anaesthetic and is a life saving treatment for many - my uncle for one! He is gay. He has had ECT 2 or 3 times for his mania, it doesn't prevent him from being gay!

Fuck off Nancy!

The sub-header on this:

“Instead of answering demands from organisations like mine...”

DEMANDS.

Nuff said.

Theonlyreal purpose of this bill is to try to force affirmation of trans identies

This, and stonewalls approach its straight out of the Dentons handbook and the advice to get something unpopular or controversial into law, by linking it to something popular and uncontroversial. Using LGB as a veil of protection

"The injury caused by conversion therapy begins with the notion that an individual is sick, diseased and abnormal due to their sexual orientation or gender identity and must therefore be treated.”

FFS. We are the ones saying kids don't need to be medicalised and sterilised because of their gender identity. Either there is nothing wrong with them, or they should be rushed through the Tavistock and given drugs and surgery before they can say "puberty". You can't have it both ways, Nancy. Or indeed you can say their obvious unhappiness and discomfort means something is wrong, but not their sexually or gender identity, and let's give them appropriate support for that.

The Government probably knew Stonewall's boycott was coming and made the calculation that they do not need them any more.

The problem we have is that anything other than full enthusiastic affirmation is classed as conversion therapy by stonewall etc al just as say a person cannot change their sex is transphobic. We need to get stonewall et al to be honest about what they claim is conversion therapy and transphobia so the general public will see how much of this is complete bs

I may be wrong but I don't think electric shocks given historically as adversion therapy is the same thing as ECT.

The first is based on behavioural science. A reward or a punishment (in this case an electric shock) is used in an attempt to program an individual into behaving in a desired way

The second is a much used treatment for psychiatric conditions that passes an electric through the brain to trigger a seizure.

So they could be saying great news about the gay conversion

Well, they could, but it's all made up. There is no actual "conversion therapy" happening of any type in 2022, so there's no point in a "partial victory".

The only real purpose of this bill is to try to force affirmation of trans identies in normal therapy. Digging into the reason for trans identification in conventional treatment is the thing that is actually happening, and so that's the only thing that could possibly be hit by the bill. Not the imaginary "conversion therapy".

It's like having an "anti-unicorn" bill. The only thing that could possibly be hit by it are horses mis-identified as hornless unicorns...

I loved one particularly brainless Twitter response to stuff about not going ahead with the conversion therapy ban. "Oh my god, I can't believe this is still happening in 2022! Of course it should be banned."

Presumably these same braniacs would respond to a proposed anti-unicorn bill being canned with "Oh my god, I can't believe there are unicorns wandering around! They should be stopped!".

So they could be saying great news about the gay conversion but instead it is just trans, trans, trans. I don't care if conversion in other countries includes the t, it doesn't matter if other countries support that.
Stonewall really have lost the plot.

‘ The fact that ECT is still used on psychiatric patients isn't a problem. It's a drastic but potentially life saving treatment for extremely ill people who are at serious risk of death. We don't understand why it works, but it does sometimes work when all else has failed.’

I’d be interested to see the results and understand how, but it’s not the topic here. The point is that NK knows it sounds regressive and even cruel to a lot of people, so she says it even though it has no relevance.

The only “shock” therapy going on is when sensible adults tell their children that they can’t actually ever change sex. For children in stonewalled schools that is in indeed a shock to hear.

I have a close relative who suffers hugely with debilitating clinical depression, they find electric shock therapy to be one of the most effective therapies for them. They are a consenting adult and even then they have to beg to be referred. Referencing the same treatment in the context of gender questioning children is scaremongering - where is the evidence that this is even offered? There will be none I am sure of it.

Stonewall are throwing their massive weight and finances behind this narrative and you have to wonder, who benefits when children are automatically affirmed and set on a medical pathway for life, with all that entails. Not children that’s for sure. Pharmaceutical industry yes. Stonewall and the rest of the “EDI” industry yes. Creepy predatory men yes.

'An effective, inclusive ban...'
'It is supported by progressive, inclusive faith leaders'
'...a commitment for a trans-inclusive ban..'

I wish Nancy would get a thesaurus!

As for the letter signed by Rowan Williams among others, I didn't realize that the Church had been Stonewalled. But I suppose one belief system supporting another isn't so surprising, seeing as they both rely on faith over fact.

Linking the TQ+ to the LGB was a master stroke in terms of gaining support for the cause, but I think (I hope) that people will start to see that they should not go together. This article sounds a bit desperate to me (but I accept that others who are knew to the whole situation might not read it the same way)