Boris Speaks!

All this scare mongering about abortion. It's only been a week since the amendment to make early abortion care at home permanent passed into law. An amendment proposed by a Conservative peer.

Does that look like a country going backwards on abortion?

And there are plenty of folk (who are also trans phobic, coincidentally, of course) happy to attest that an abortion will have life changing consequences (for the pregnant person) and so will contraception.

The word you're looking for there is women. Pregnant women.

They will of course say these things as it appeals to their gammon type voters, not a group I'd like to be aligned with.

Gammon, huh?

I think you've revealed yourself there. Do you use categorise individuals under a dismissive nickname for every perspective in society you dislike?

I don't disagree re womens spaces etc but on this board are absolutely rabid on this, you've lost all sense of proportion.

So you don't disagree with us but you think the women who have done all the legwork and grind pushing back on this (remembering that much of he grassroots campaigns began here on MN) are 'rabid' and have 'lost all sense of proportion"

Yeah okay then.

Didn't think I'd ever agree with anything Boris had to say but these are strange times!

I cannot and will not vote for that misogynistic cunt. He is ruining the lives of millions of women through the policies his cuntish party are pushing through.
However, on this I will say hallelujah at least he is speaking some sense. Come on Keir don't double down. Listen, look at the (pretty fucking blatant) nuances and react.

I don't disagree re womens spaces etc but on this board are absolutely rabid on this, you've lost all sense of proportion.

Does calling people names ever convince anyone?

I can very easily not vote Labour. It's totally on them to win me back as a voter.

I'm open to listening should they decide they want to win women like me back.

Yeah you each have one vote and voting conservative based on this particular issue is imo repugnant. Pointless discussing in this echo chamber, bye 👋

For all those of you shouting, "how can you not vote Labour?" please read.

I can explain it all!

Imagine that overnight the Labour party undergoes a sea-change. Their policies are exactly what you want: from employment rights, the NHS budget, improved disability support, a plan to build more social housing, future-proofing the country against climate-change, animal welfare in farming, to increased funding of schools and colleges. Everything you could ever dream of, they are perfect on, and the manifesto is fully costed.And you believe them

But there is one thing you don't like. Imagine they also plan to remove trans people's human rights. Imagine that under the Labour party, gender reassignment will no longer be a protected characteristic in the Equality Act, hate crimes against trans people will no longer be recorded, transgender surgery will be banned, and cross-sex hormones will be banned for adults. Would you still be willing to vote Labour?

I'm not going to ask you to disclose which way you would vote, but can you accept that not everyone would be willing to entirely sacrifice trans people's safety for everyone else's happiness? That they can't accept seeing trans people used as a bargaining chip?

If you can, good.

Now, here's the shocking part. Some people feel equally as strongly about women's legal rights.

Oh, and more Tory hatred from Labour voters. Great way to win friends and influence people LookMoreCloselier.

I hate it when the thread descends to name calling. We each have one vote and can use it to do what we think is right.

Please don't vote tory on this alone, it's a non issue in comparison to what's going on in the world right now and it's frankly baffling that this would be anyones hill to die on. They will of course say these things as it appeals to their gammon type voters, not a group I'd like to be aligned with.

Oh do shut up. I haven't decided whether I can bear to vote Tory yet, but patronising pleas like yours make me more likely to. Just stop it with minimising how appalling it is for a political party to be unable to even recognise, and therefore also uphold the rights of, literally half the people on the planet.

Oh and if 'gammons' generally believed that kicking puppies, selling drugs to children and advertising cigarettes were bad, would you 'not want to be aligned' with them on those issues either? Just because you dislike a group of people or generally disagree with many of their views, that doesn't mean you have to automatically disagree with everything they say. That is just dimwitted and childish.

Being Gillick competent with regards to contraception and abortion - where the issues are well known and relatively easy to understand - is far different from being competent to understand the far reaching implications of the previously untried and still experimental treatments associated with transitioning.
Contraception and abortion, for example, will not result in loss of fertility or the ability to have an orgasm. They might, however, help you finish your education and start a career without the added complication of having to look after a baby.

With friends like those on this thread, Labour really doesn’t need enemies

He also speaks against Gillick competence (so kiss contraception and abortion rights for under 18 good bye).

I think you mean under 16.

It’s like in the film about equal pay at Dagenham the labour union men kept batting back the womens issues “yes yes we will get to that when everyone else’s rights are sorted”. Well we didn’t fall for that then Labour and we won’t fall for it now.

Catherina, you are misquoting. He is saying that he does not think it reasonable to be deemed Gillick competent.

These are life changing decisions.

Do you personally think it is OK for a confused and unhappy and perhaps immature 14 year old girl to be put on a course of life altering, non reversible drugs?

If so you are at odds with the majority of the population.

Boris' references to Gillick competence, sport etc suggested he has mastered the brief, understands what it is all about and where the problems are.

I agree. It’s the most eloquent and knowledgeable I’ve ever heard him be on a subject.