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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris Johnson on Sky

183 replies

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 12:22

Johnson “sad” about the reaction from LGBT groups, says he’s 100% committed to a ban on gay conversion therapy, but there complexities and sensitivities about the area of gender, and he thinks there are things that need to be worked out.

Determined to tackle prejudice.

Re. trans conversion therapy, it wasn’t something he thought he would have to consider in great detail. These are novel concepts. He doesn’t think it’s reasonable for kids to be deemed Gillick competent in trans treatments. He doesn’t think males should be competing in female sports. Women should have spaces which are dedicated to women.

That’s as far as his thinking has developed, and if it puts him in conflict with others, he wants to work it out. Is sympathetic to transitioners. But these are complex issues and it takes thought to get it right.

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lakeswimmer · 06/04/2022 14:00

I think, if nothing else, BJ is populist and politically savvy. He can see all the other parties are making a dogs dinner of this issue and so he's being clear about his position just as he was over Brexit. He's making Starmer and the rest of them look like idiots and coming from Boris that's saying something.

I've always voted Lib Dem or Green. Have spoilt my paper at the last couple of elections. This might edge me over the line to vote Tory.

Iggly · 06/04/2022 13:59

What I dont think should have happened is that we shut the schools but the teachers were so miliant, phases such as teachers going to their deaths etc meant that the government had no choice

Actually that’s incorrect. Teachers wanted schools to be safe and the government didn’t ensure that would happen. They didn’t have decent measures in place.

Electrox · 06/04/2022 13:58

Well said, Boris.

Iggly · 06/04/2022 13:57

@tabbycatstripy

Someone wrote on Twitter, ‘He was coherent and honest during that clip. Very unlike him.’ Grin

Easy to forget he’s a very successful politician who has (when he can bothered to use them and is sober) excellent faculties and first-class powers of persuasion.

He is a very successful politician and an accomplished liar!

I really don’t trust him on this to be honest. I don’t trust him with anything.

I remember seeing him on many occasions showing himself to seem to talk sense - he’s very good at playing to the crowd and is playing to it now. Better to watch his actions.

As he is currently the PM, what exactly is he doing now to protect womens rights?

But either way, as he’s prepared to let children grow up in poverty- that is my red line. (Because I grew up in poverty under thatcher), so I have to chose that issue over this one.

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 13:57

LOJ is off his starting block, running full-speed into saying Johnson is weaponising the stigma against a minority (by saying women deserve spaces for women, people shouldn’t have an unfair advantage in sports, and we shouldn’t put children on sex-change hormones).

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tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 13:54

Haven’t seen Carrie for a while. I think it became obvious she was a vote loser for the PM and she’s been sent to live in a yurt. I’m sure it’s very swanky, though.

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Franklin12 · 06/04/2022 13:51

Xalo - you are right. Moral high ground and having to take no responsibility for anything. Labour would have been like Sturgeon if they had been in charge during the pandemic. She loves controlling her people and having the government tell them what to do.

I dont agree with some of what this government have done, the parties were shameful, but the buying of vaccinations from different companies was a brilliant idea. Media coverage to get everyone jabbed was good too. What I dont think should have happened is that we shut the schools but the teachers were so miliant, phases such as teachers going to their deaths etc meant that the government had no choice.

lifeturnsonadime · 06/04/2022 13:51

I can't help wondering what Carrie thinks of his views on this. I thought she was pro the Stonewall agenda?

Patchbatch · 06/04/2022 13:47

Wow I have to say, genuinely, he made so much sense and it was great to see him saying those things. Sadly a lot of his rubbish views and previous actions on other matters will be used as a way to tear it apart but wheeeeew was good to hear. Take note labour, sort yourselves out ffs.

BellatrixOnABadDay · 06/04/2022 13:44

Like Johnson would ever be against contraception. Probably the only thing that’s kept him from bankruptcy.

😁

xalo · 06/04/2022 13:42

Sadly I think that the Labour Party are content to be in opposition indefinitely. They can then take the moral high ground on everything without producing any workable policies.
I canvassed for them for years with my Dad but this neglect of women is the final straw and for the first time I am considering voting Tory. Sorry Dad.

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 13:41

The TRA line seems to be that he is against abortion and contraception because he doesn’t think children can be regarded as Gillick competent when it comes to trans healthcare.

Like Johnson would ever be against contraception. Probably the only thing that’s kept him from bankruptcy.

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ChristinaXYZ · 06/04/2022 13:35

So good. He was so clear and balanced and pointed out it was new and evolving and would not be bounced into trying to score woke points though the questions were leading. I also like the clear separation he made between the LGB and the T.

Fluffymule · 06/04/2022 13:33

@sashagabadon

Clear from Boris. I also liked his mention of kids being “Gillick competent “ and that parents should be involved. I think he understands the issues and his thinking can only go one way now. No debate is certainly over.
Yes, I thought this notable too.

I think the Government will keep framing this trans conversion therapy issue around children and careful safeguards because it's so obviously reasonable.

People who argue aggressively against children being given time, space and meaningful support look increasingly dishonest.

Sidneysussex · 06/04/2022 13:32

If voting Boris can stop children being given damaging medical treatment. So be it.
This issue is absolutely massive for women but most of us will not even acknowledge that trans rights can affect women's rights and safety.
If Boris is brave enough to address this which is more than anyone else has i will back him.
In reality taxes ect will be equally horrific whichever party wins. But this could be something the Tories start to address.
I didn't expect to ever say anything positive about Boris but in this case, yep well done.

Absurdle · 06/04/2022 13:31

Rayner's reaction is interesting. She's specifically objecting to the part where Johnson says "these are novel concepts" and that he didn't think he'd have to consider it in such great detail.

I think that part was rather clever and he had his finger firmly on the pulse of the country with it. Most people do find the discussion bewildering and exhausting and are very confused about why the issue is in their faces so much. It doesn't say much for Rayner's political savvy if she thinks that "these are new concepts" disqualifies Johnson from speaking on the issue.

Franklin12 · 06/04/2022 13:31

Ideological bubble... now which one of our main political parties would this be referencing I wonder....

MangyInseam · 06/04/2022 13:28

@mynameisnotkate

I’m torn between being grateful that the PM is saying this, and worried that the association with a lying, incompetent Tory will reinforce the idea that this is bad in the minds of people who are on the fence and don’t think much. I wish there was a broader range of political figures saying stuff like this. To some extent it adds fuel to the ‘only right wing bigots think this’ nonsense.
I think that people who think that way are already locked into a dead end ideological bubble. Which is a big part of the problem that has brought us to this state of affairs in the first place.

It's difficult to know what might get through to that group of people, they are so set on "my side good, that side bad".

Franklin12 · 06/04/2022 13:28

I always wonder why Labour dont pay some true blue voter to attend a meeting to tell them what they need to do to get a majority as big as the Tories. Its almost like the want to stab themselves in the back and spoil it for themselves.

All that was needed was someone important (i.e Boris) to state the bleeding obvious and everyone is nodding in agreement. Would like to see what Boris et al do with this now to make Labour look even more daft than they do now. Its not just Starmer who is spouting this rubbish, they all seem to be saying it, Lammy, even Cooper who was my favourite of the politicans. Its like they have their sensible and reasonable gene removed.

DomesticatedZombie · 06/04/2022 13:23

Good.

Anyone trying to whip up some kind of anger about that eminently reasonable and moderate statement is only going to show themselves up as an intolerant extremist.

ResisterRex · 06/04/2022 13:22

That was a good performance from Boris. He says he hasn't thought too much (to paraphrase) but he has. He definitely has.

Franklin12 · 06/04/2022 13:21

The sports situation is complete nonsense. Surely someone is going to say enough is enough. The transwomen looked like men, they were head and shoulders taller than the women. It cannot be fair to women to compete against them.

Have a separate category for them.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/04/2022 13:18

As the press (thinking of the BBC & ITV) have completely forgotten to mention anything about children, it's good to hear the PM speaking so clearly about the issue. Now for the Sec of State for Education to start rolling back all the trans guidance in schools telling them they can transition children in secret from their parents.

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 13:13

Someone wrote on Twitter, ‘He was coherent and honest during that clip. Very unlike him.’

Grin

Easy to forget he’s a very successful politician who has (when he can bothered to use them and is sober) excellent faculties and first-class powers of persuasion.

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Violetparis · 06/04/2022 13:13

I doubt Boris particularly cares about these issues but is stating his views to put a clear divide between him and the ridiculous Labour politicians. Labour can't say they weren't warned this would happen, what a let down they are.