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Original poster

Boris Johnson on Sky

183 replies

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 12:22

Johnson “sad” about the reaction from LGBT groups, says he’s 100% committed to a ban on gay conversion therapy, but there complexities and sensitivities about the area of gender, and he thinks there are things that need to be worked out.

Determined to tackle prejudice.

Re. trans conversion therapy, it wasn’t something he thought he would have to consider in great detail. These are novel concepts. He doesn’t think it’s reasonable for kids to be deemed Gillick competent in trans treatments. He doesn’t think males should be competing in female sports. Women should have spaces which are dedicated to women.

That’s as far as his thinking has developed, and if it puts him in conflict with others, he wants to work it out. Is sympathetic to transitioners. But these are complex issues and it takes thought to get it right.

OP posts:
achillesshield · 06/04/2022 14:41

@Iggly
Surely what matters here is not the left/right divide, but the fact that the PM, for whatever reasons, is talking sensibly about these matters. This can then be built upon in whatever way possible. We shouldn't let ourselves be derailed and divided on party political lines at this stage. We should all be pulling together.

SpidersAreShitheads · 06/04/2022 14:39

I have spent the last few years utterly furious with the Tories for being so corrupt. For deliberately lying. For lying so much that it no longer bears any resemblance to the truth. And for getting away with it. And for not even giving a shit to try and cover up their corruption.

And now I find that they are the ONLY party in Westminster who are willing to safeguard women and children.

If self ID comes in, it will never be reversed. Once we go fully down this rabbit hole, we'll never get our rights back. The result of the next election will be pivotal in women's rights for the future.

How the FUCK has it come to the point that the only party willing to say that biological rights matter is the bloody Tories?!

I'm not stupid. I'm well aware that they've latched onto it as a vote winner. I doubt they care about women any more than they care about trans rights. But as it stands right now, they are the only party who are saying they support women's right to be away from bodies with a penis when they're in a vulnerable position.

I don't know whether to celebrate or cry right now. Who knows - maybe Labour might notice the swell of support and switch their allegiance but with Rayner banging the drum and Starmer terrified of upsetting the (male) voters, it seems unlikely. Fuck.

bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:39

@Iggly cuts to the NHS. The same NHS that sanctions rapists on women only wards.

TheDogsMother · 06/04/2022 14:38

Jeez I am so anti-this govt for so many reasons but this is such a breath of fresh air after the Labour stance right now. What to do eh.

lifeturnsonadime · 06/04/2022 14:38

@Iggly

Under the conservatives, we’ve seen cuts to the NHS, cuts to mental help, cuts to SEND funding in schools.

Providing safe spaces for women and safeguarding children takes money and investment. They won’t do it. They’ll say it but they won’t actually do it.

What what they do not what they say!.

Please don’t fall into the trap of Boris Johnson uttering the right words.

Cuts to SEND funding and CAMHS also affect me directly.

Which is why it is APPALLING that KEIR STARMER has put me in the position of having to vote tory for the first time in my life.

Stop blaming Boris Johnson for the failure of Keir Starmer to meet the needs of labour voters.

bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:37

"Providing safe spaces for women and safeguarding children takes money and investment. They won’t do it. They’ll say it but they won’t actually do it. "
Keep male bodied people out of the ones we have now. That's a start.

bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:36

@ResisterRex absolutely agree. I'm a Remain voter. Not every leave voter is a bigoted swivel eyed loon. You can't assume everyone concerned about self ID or de facto self ID is either

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 14:36

Should have said - vote for him.

OP posts:
Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:36

Under the conservatives, we’ve seen cuts to the NHS, cuts to mental help, cuts to SEND funding in schools.

Providing safe spaces for women and safeguarding children takes money and investment. They won’t do it. They’ll say it but they won’t actually do it.

What what they do not what they say!.

Please don’t fall into the trap of Boris Johnson uttering the right words.

MangyInseam · 06/04/2022 14:35

@ResisterRex

That was a good performance from Boris. He says he hasn't thought too much (to paraphrase) but he has. He definitely has.
Yeah, I think this is true, he was very careful with his language in a way that says he understands the implications. He's not, despite what people say, a stupid person, and while I don't know if he "cares" as some as suggested, I do think he's capable of seeing that ignoring biological reality is not a viable way of organizing society. Which to me is more important than being caring, we see where that sentiment gets us when it's unmoored from pragmatism and rationality.
ResisterRex · 06/04/2022 14:35

If people haven't learned from castigating the voters who wanted to leave the EU, or stay in the Union by now then they never will.

Wagging fingers at people who know that once self-ID becomes law, all bets are off, won't change their minds. It absolutely will not change my mind. Why shouldn't I vote to protect myself from males in women's spaces and sports and services? What exactly is wrong with that? Why can't women vote to protect themselves, children, and vulnerable people? Why can't dads want their girls to be safe?

It would be great to see the opposition parties really listen and genuinely change their minds. It would be brilliant. It just feels highly unlikely at this point.

bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:34

"Honestly, stop letting off the conservatives." Said every single Labour activist instead of addressing people's reasonable and legitimate concerns.
No prizes for second place in Westminster elections.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 14:34

‘What a risk to take for something so important’

It’s a completely sensible risk to take.

I know Labour (led by their chief Mermaids supporter, Rayner) will encourage childhood transition. I have reason to think Johnson won’t.

I know Nandy, Sobel, Thornberry, Lammy etc. will further undermine women’s rights through the pursuit of self-ID. I know Johnson won’t (because he would have done it).

The easy options of passing the laws the LGBTQ+ lobby want are the options Johnson is rejecting.

So I am going to vote a

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 06/04/2022 14:33

I suspect that he does understand the situation and speaks as he thinks - in this case. It must make a pleasant change from all that duplicity.

lifeturnsonadime · 06/04/2022 14:33

@Iggly

You don’t know that *@lifeturnsonadime*

The Tories are in power now…

And the Cass Report has been published under the Tory Government which urges caution with gender reassignment.

The Labour Government is committed to the Biden approach to affirming health care.

No thank you. My daughter is a girl. She has the right to grow up to be a woman. The Labour Party will encourage her to believe that gender non -conformity means that she is a non-girl potentially with dire consequences.

The labour party is simply dangerous.

It needs to back pedal now or the Tory party will get back in.

bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:33

@Iggly , he may well drop the issue. But as long as he doesn't lead self-ID into law, I'm ok with that.

Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:32

@achillesshield

This isn't transphobia - it's safeguarding children and women's rights.
Who said it was?

I think Labour are not single minded on this issue nor do I trust the Conservatives on this because they’ll say the right things but I wouldn’t trust them to do them.

So I wouldn’t trust Boris after a few weasel words today and I’m stunned that people are - just because it sounds good. Especially knowing his track record.

Madness. As soon as he crosses that number ten threshold after the election, he’ll drop the issue.

OvaHere · 06/04/2022 14:30

Blimey. I go do some work and this happens!

Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:29

You don’t know that @lifeturnsonadime

The Tories are in power now…

Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:29

[quote bellinisurge]@iggly I'm old. I've seen this shit before many times with Labour. They think hatred of the Tories allows them to be bat-shit extremists and they'll win. They won't. They don't need to lose all women but if they lose enough with this nonsense, our FPTP system means it will be another Tory government. Despite being criminally incompetent. This is on Labour.[/quote]
Honestly, stop letting off the conservatives.

lifeturnsonadime · 06/04/2022 14:28

@Iggly

Until he does that then women have a safer bet voting Tory than Labour

I’m not sure how you can say that when we are under a Tory government and have been since 2010.

The Tories have not actively done anything on this really as far as I can see, unless I’m missing something.

This has become a growing issue because of what is happening now under the Tories - why would we be safer under them? If they had this right, then why are we having these debates?

As the mother of an autistic gender non conforming girl I can categorically tell you that my daughter is at greater risk of harm under a Labour Government than the current government.
bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 14:28

@iggly I'm old. I've seen this shit before many times with Labour. They think hatred of the Tories allows them to be bat-shit extremists and they'll win. They won't. They don't need to lose all women but if they lose enough with this nonsense, our FPTP system means it will be another Tory government. Despite being criminally incompetent. This is on Labour.

achillesshield · 06/04/2022 14:27

This isn't transphobia - it's safeguarding children and women's rights.

Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:26

@Signalbox

How do you know he isn’t lying about this just to get your vote

What might he be lying about? That he actually thinks it’s fair for men to compete with women? Or that he thinks children do have Gillick competence for experimental medical treatments.

The Tories were all set with these laws to look really progressive and right on. They’ve done a U turn because they’ve realised that the issue is more complex than they first thought. It seems quite straight forward really.

Some people do think it’s fair - it’s been happening on his watch!?
Iggly · 06/04/2022 14:25

Until he does that then women have a safer bet voting Tory than Labour

I’m not sure how you can say that when we are under a Tory government and have been since 2010.

The Tories have not actively done anything on this really as far as I can see, unless I’m missing something.

This has become a growing issue because of what is happening now under the Tories - why would we be safer under them? If they had this right, then why are we having these debates?