Boris Johnson on Sky

Johnson might be lying but at least, on this matter, the words coming out of his mouth are making sense unlike anyone from any of the other political parties. For me, that's a win.

I'm extremely sceptical about politics, I believe there isn't a huge difference between the parties as the strings are pulled behind the scenes by business interests regardless of who's in power. However, I have a vote and there's clear water emerging between the parties on this one issue and I'm inclined to use my vote to save my rights and those of my daughter. I don't really care what other people think and, given that my vote is private, they won't know anyway.

The left have shown themselves to be thoughtless intolerant ideologues and I've got no interest in supporting their nonsense. I'm so sick of apparently worthy men telling me what to think about my rights. Twats.

mobile.twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1511704165201977345

It looks like they are now positioning themselves to go for Labour’s jugular over this.

Good. The sooner it implodes, the sooner I can hope for a sane left leaning party to vote for.

"Well, no one can guarantee that he's not lying.

But Starmer is telling a bigger lie by saying that men can be women.

What is required here is that Starmer shows an interest in protecting the safeguarding of women and girls.

Until he does that then women have a safer bet voting Tory than Labour.

And that is something I never thought I'd say."

Exactly bang on.
What's even worse is that he's spouting the TRA drivel with a straight
face looking "profoundly concerned" about the potential hurt and harm caused to the trans community and their activists.
Remember?
For years now, we've been told - no, INSTRUCTED - that even having a debate on these issues is "harmful", "dangerous", tantamount to "erasing" trans lives. It's an act of violence. In and of itself.
By having a debate we're putting trans physical existence at risk.
I fucking remember. And not going to forget any time soon.
If, in this country, we cannot have a normal, public conversation
about the most basic facts of our lives - without being branded fascists and the rest - how the fuck are we going to touch on even more complex and contentious issues?
And how it came about that now in this lovely country we, as the public, need a politicians' permission to have a debate with the list of topics approved for debate?
How the fuck has this happened?
The Overton window needs to be smashed here and pronto.
Deer Keir is too nice, too petrified and intellectually spent to help
with that. So is the rest of the Labour sheep. Brainless herd of deers
caught in the headlights of public derision.
Voted for the lot all my life.

Never again.
They need to be examined thoroughly by some specialists panel.
Not sure exactly which one yet.

In my more imaginative moments I've wondered if they've gradually been infiltrated by bad actors intend of dividing them by sowing the seeds of identity politics/gender ideology....I'm remembering GBH from the 1990's and how I didn't see it coming when the Labour Party fixer turned out to be a right wing agitator all along.....

and then I remember, no that would take too much organisation and long-sightedness on all sides ;)

Relevant

Thank you Boris although, of course, I'm not 100% sure that you are telling the truth and will commit to what you say
Still, it is far better than what I'm hearing from Labour
It is scary to think what would happen if Labour were voted in

But I wouldn't believe a word out of Starmer's mouth or anyone else in that party now. Think of the 'webchats' (hollow laugh) here on MN with the Labour Party Leader candidates? Four car crashes. Three women openly shouting down with women's rights in favour of men's rights and freedoms and feelings, fuck safeguarding... and Starmer just refusing to say anything. There's a saying up north: that one can make his mouth say anything.

Starmer is telling a bigger lie by saying that men can be women.

All politicians lie, we know that. What matters is the underlying ideology. Tory ideology is fairly straightforward - I don't agree wtih most of it, but it's largely transparent. Labour's ideology ... has got twisted. Very, very twisted. To the point they are mouthing absurdities.

Any party willing to mouth absurdities, to say that rapists should be given priority over women prisoners, to say that women can't call themselves women, etc, is on very dangerous ground imo, because they're operating on faith alone, divorced from any practical realities, and are demonstrably willing to say anything, ignore absolutely anything, in service to a garbled, waffly ideology.

Frankly it's the absolute vitriol that comes from the left towards anyone who votes differently, along with their stance on women's rights, that has made me cancel my Labour Party membership and I will not be voting for them again until they can start speaking some sense.

Sign me up. Call me whatever names you feel you have to, I'll put that on a t shirt. And I'll be too polite to equally name call and label what I think of people who think women and children should be subjected to all this without conscience.

Yep. Name calling no longer works.

And who is your 'flag bearer', Disgusted? Jamie Wallis?

I really don't understand this question of why they aren't doing anything if they really believe that. That feels very naive to me.

The situation on this issue has been changing really rapidly over the last five years. It was for the first several years of that, and before also I suspect, activist driven. Almost everyone was swayed by their influence including all of the political parties, in a general kind of way. And many different kinds of institutions and organizations, schools, prisons, NGOs, the police, even the civil service, were very much affected by the activist groups that began to push these ideas. Not least SW because of its huge influence and reputation, like the Vatican of the secular humanist Labour voting crowd.

And political parties across the board started to craft legislation on this basis. Right up until they started to get all kinds of pushback, largely though not exclusively from women. And despite all the attempts of activists to shut down any disagreement or attempts to discuss the issue.

And all along, when it was only a few people in politics listening, they tended to be Tories, not Labour or LibDem or Green. Similarly the political figures who really went to bat. Worse, the LP, LibDems, and Greens went all out trying to shut down differening points of view, right up to trying to kick them out of their parties.

It's only in the last month, or last few weeks, that there has finally been a real hard political statament at the highest level by Conservatives, culminated in the last few days with these statements by BJ. There is every reason to think that this represents a significant consensus by the party members overall, and what that means is they are now in a position to begin working to change some of these things that have gone through on the sly all over the place, largely due to bad advice from lobby organisations.

It's now possible to wield political influence on this given the weight of perspective in both the CP and among the public, and we should expect to start to see actual changes and hold them to that expectation.

If Labour were in, right now there would be self id and psychologists would not be allowed to offer kids in therapy anything but affirmation, and SW would still be offering their flawed indoctrination to public and political institutions across the country, and they would be actively suppressing any discussion of gender issues.

What is so enraging is that OF COURSE Starmer knows what a woman is. He is just too frightened of aggressive Twitter ranters to say the truth out loud.

I actually prefer the MRA misogynists who are clear that they don't think women deserve any particular rights. At least they're honest.

To some extent it adds fuel to the ‘only right wing bigots think this’ nonsense.

Yeah. Frankly at this point, if wanting children to have access to therapeutic support when in distress, not criminalising parents and therapists trying help, not wanting children to be unquestioningly galloped into lifetime impact decisions, wanting female people to have access and equality without being excluded from women's spaces and not to be raped in the name of a male person living their best life and mattering more than them makes me a 'right wing bigot'?

Sign me up. Call me whatever names you feel you have to, I'll put that on a t shirt. And I'll be too polite to equally name call and label what I think of people who think women and children should be subjected to all this without conscience.

What a risk to take for something so important

Given you agree it’s important are you concerned about self ID being implemented if Labour win?

Or a reversal of the T being treated differently for this law?

I think that Boris believes in what he has said - just like 95% of the population. I was watching the coverage of Harry Billage this morning and lots of people were coming out in support of what he has done.

Do you honestly think those people would think self ID is the way to go? Who does, some blabber mouths in trendy London I suspect (and I am from London myself!). People who spout off complete rubbish until it affects them. Want a self IDing man in with your 80 year old Mum in M&S changing room? Would you like after many years of your DD training for swimming at the highest level to be pushed into 2nd place by someone who was once a man.

No - I didnt think so!

This is a pure win for the Tory party.

The kind of people who will tantrum and yell ‘transphobe/bigot/nazi’ at the PM for this (shockingly) balanced and reasonable statement are the kind who would never vote Tory anyway.

However, he may very well have attracted some of the many disenfranchised left leaning women to vote to make a stand on this issue alone.

I certainly will be.

There is a failure to realize that a lot of the time, people don't vote for a president or PM because they think he's a great person, or like him, or believe he's a moral person even. It's because on balance they think the things his government do will be better than the things the other guy's does, and take the country forward or at least not take it back.

I keep wondering, looking at Biden's presidency, do the voters who were mostly interested in getting rid of Trump ever think, maybe this isn't better so much as I thought it would be? Maybe those other voters weren't so completely crazy after all?

But there can be no perspective because they can't look objectively at the things that actually happened or are happening now.

If self ID comes in, it will never be reversed.

This is the crux of it for me. Perhaps another 4 years of a Tory government will force Labour to acknowledge that women exist and they aren’t bigots for wanting spaces/services/sporting competitions separate from men. They really need to get a grip.

I struggle to say this about Johnson but...well done that man!

If it's a vote winner and labour don't like it, then they can change their mind tout suite, cant they.

If they think most people agree with Boris, because if not it wouldn't be a vote winner, then what the fuck are they doing disagreeing?

Some people do think it’s fair - it’s been happening on his watch!?

And the Tories are starting to put the brakes on by not going ahead with legislation (GRA reform and conversion therapy for trans). Labour would go full steam ahead with both of these actively dismantling women’s rights. At least the Tories are starting to be clear with language. It’s not just Boris it’s a lot of Tory MPs and they aren’t all liars.

Labour made this party political.

If Labour can't see how this is so hurtful and disrespectful, it's on them. Absolutely on them. I will do a deal with the devil to keep women and girls safe. If I have to.