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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris Johnson on Sky

183 replies

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 12:22

Johnson “sad” about the reaction from LGBT groups, says he’s 100% committed to a ban on gay conversion therapy, but there complexities and sensitivities about the area of gender, and he thinks there are things that need to be worked out.

Determined to tackle prejudice.

Re. trans conversion therapy, it wasn’t something he thought he would have to consider in great detail. These are novel concepts. He doesn’t think it’s reasonable for kids to be deemed Gillick competent in trans treatments. He doesn’t think males should be competing in female sports. Women should have spaces which are dedicated to women.

That’s as far as his thinking has developed, and if it puts him in conflict with others, he wants to work it out. Is sympathetic to transitioners. But these are complex issues and it takes thought to get it right.

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MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/04/2022 21:17

Many thanks!

BingBongSong · 06/04/2022 21:13

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

PS. Anyone know where I can get hold of some Women's Rights stickers?
@MarieIVanArkleStinks, try the Wild Womyn Workshop:

wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/sticker/

Or Posie's shop at Standing for Women:

www.adulthumanfemale.store/stickers

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/04/2022 21:02

PS. Anyone know where I can get hold of some Women's Rights stickers?

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 06/04/2022 21:01

He’s spotted a weakness as the sunlight hits the TRA/Stonewall agenda. Labour are sticking with the ridiculous notion that men can become women, so of course he is going to come down on the side of biological reality as more and more women turn away from Labour.
He wants those votes. Stating biological and safeguarding reality will get him many of those votes
.

Of course he does. He's an opportunist and a populist politician. He wants to divert attention from the tax hikes. He's a misogynist and a racist, granted, but the one thing I don't accuse him of being is transphobic. What he said today was nothing but compassionate to trans people, if you believe him (and I have no reason to think the Tories care any more for trans people than they ever did for women).

I doubt any poster on this board is unaware of these issues. We know what Johnson is about. Well, I for one am pleased to see so many people state they still intend to vote Tory - as do I, and I'm not being a 'shy Tory' about it, either. Yes, even in view of the disastrous fuck-up that was Brexit. (This will be for only the second time in my life; the first time, I'd have voted for the devil to get rid of Blair).

This is the most sustained, catastrophic assault on women's rights I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. So much so, that to me, other issues are now of secondary importance. Vote Labour, and you're voting self ID, and will possibly wake up one day blinking in the daylight, wondering where the rights have gone that you gave away and will likely never get back. As far as woman are concerned, you're voting for your own erasure. Why would any female even contemplate doing such a thing? It flies in the face of logic altogether.

I did not leave Labour. Labour left me. Boris Johnson's party did not win my vote. Labour lost it.

And until their leader recognises what a woman is and takes our rights, dignity and safeguarding concerns seriously, they are NEVER getting it back.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/04/2022 20:57

Streeting could take that space. He is committed to trans rights but he also recognises women’s rights

Not sure what he believes and am not prepared to take the risk right now that he is committed to women’s rights at this time.

I have tried to look for that thread about the group he was mentioned in would have been about 2019. Does anyone have a link?

jkrfan · 06/04/2022 18:56

@bellinisurge

And the same in the USA. Trump or his acolyte will get back in unless Biden stops this stupid shit. But he won't. And the US is doomed to Trump #2
Yes but the UK Conservative Party is way to the left of the USA Republicans. It was closer in the Thatcher-Reagan years but still quite a gap.
tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 18:54

Dan Carden (Labour MP) tweeting Johnson is ‘sowing division in society at home’ rather than focusing on helping LGBT people abroad with the conference.

That rather throws what actually happened down the memory hole, doesn’t it? Stonewall and other organisations were told no about something they wanted in UK law, they pulled out and the conference became untenable.

If Johnson had his way it would have gone ahead...

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jkrfan · 06/04/2022 18:53

@Signalbox

How do you know he isn’t lying about this just to get your vote

What might he be lying about? That he actually thinks it’s fair for men to compete with women? Or that he thinks children do have Gillick competence for experimental medical treatments.

The Tories were all set with these laws to look really progressive and right on. They’ve done a U turn because they’ve realised that the issue is more complex than they first thought. It seems quite straight forward really.

This. It was Theresa May who was taken in on self-id but then Brexit was a distraction.
Polynerd · 06/04/2022 18:52

In case anybody is interested (and apols if it has been posted above) here is the form via which you can contact No. 10 to comment on this: contact.no10.gov.uk/

oliviastwisted · 06/04/2022 18:51

This is a very shrewd political ploy. The public are not on board with the mores of the trans ideology. This position will win him votes and given he cares about nothing except himself and his ego that is a winning statement from him.

The left need to take a serious look at how far they have moved away from the people electing them and really start to engage with these issues.

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 18:39

Streeting could take that space. He is committed to trans rights but he also recognises women’s rights and at least talks the talk of finding a middle ground.

But he was nowhere near as credible as BJ was today, and he knows a lot more about it so there’s no reason why not (other than his own beliefs).

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Artichokeleaves · 06/04/2022 18:38

I hope this is a genuine sentiment from BJ though and not just a vote spinner.

Id rather they kept womens rights as a cynical vote spinning ploy to thwart labour than have no rights.

That's a few more years to organise and sort this out.

MangyInseam · 06/04/2022 18:38

@ResisterRex

In a serious way, I do think we are in for another 15+ years of Tory rule. The current position will dog Labour. They will need a committed Blair-type reformer who moves in on the middle ground.

Hardly anyone is going to want mixed sex provision everywhere. Ever.

It's not just the gender stuff, they are going to struggle to function and produce good policy ideas when they are so wedded to unquestioning adherence to political orthodoxies and identity politics. They are going to struggle to attract good candidates as well.
ResisterRex · 06/04/2022 18:31

In a serious way, I do think we are in for another 15+ years of Tory rule. The current position will dog Labour. They will need a committed Blair-type reformer who moves in on the middle ground.

Hardly anyone is going to want mixed sex provision everywhere. Ever.

OvaHere · 06/04/2022 18:08

Rayner has not got a clue and Labour remain unelectable for a long time. It was 17 years in the 1980s...history is repeating.

So eventually another Blair will come along to say "yeah sorry about all that lady penis stuff, bit awkward. Anyway moving on..." Grin

PeskyBaboon · 06/04/2022 18:07

I hereby propose a debate.

The topic of the debate:
"The careless cruelty of having a debate" (and other fascists activities)
Discuss.
Thank you.

Musomama1 · 06/04/2022 18:04

I haven't seen this yet but I'm tearing up a little. Particularly for the comment on children being to young for considering medication/surgery. And women's sports and safe spaces.

It feels like common sense is being heard, as a lefty the fact it's coming from the Tory's is making my head spin.

I can't believe I'm going to vote for them, but I will. I hope this is a genuine sentiment from BJ though and not just a vote spinner.

Artichokeleaves · 06/04/2022 18:04

It is now being straightforwardly posited by the left on all sides as trans rights vs women's rights. Only one can win, and they are against women.

Whatever. Good bye left.

PeskyBaboon · 06/04/2022 18:03

"The left, meanwhile, ties itself in knots trying to recognise trans rights without actually fighting for them or finding any passion or joy in being an ally."
Zoe W.

Passion and joy.
In the Labour party.
Fuck me.

MarshaBradyo · 06/04/2022 17:57

@PeskyBaboon

"Labour needs to own its policy on gender - and unequivocally back trans rights Zoe Williams The only person benefiting from this ‘debate’ is Boris Johnson, who is using the issue as a wedge to divide the opposition."

See, Ladies?
And that is why - again - we CAN NOT have this 'debate'.
Any and every debate that benefits the Tories is not allowed.
Even if half of the population wants one.
Verboten.
This 'debate' is a "careless cruelty" and "manoeuvring".

With friends and helpers (intellectuals??) like those in the "guardian"
who needs enemies of the Labour party...

Unbelievable. Both Williams and the paper are hopeless
PeskyBaboon · 06/04/2022 17:55

"Labour needs to own its policy on gender - and unequivocally back trans rights
Zoe Williams
The only person benefiting from this ‘debate’ is Boris Johnson, who is using the issue as a wedge to divide the opposition."

See, Ladies?
And that is why - again - we CAN NOT have this 'debate'.
Any and every debate that benefits the Tories is not allowed.
Even if half of the population wants one.
Verboten.
This 'debate' is a "careless cruelty" and "manoeuvring".

With friends and helpers (intellectuals??) like those in the "guardian"
who needs enemies of the Labour party...

Rooroobear · 06/04/2022 17:52

AMEN!!!!!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

ferretface · 06/04/2022 17:48

I'm in a safe Tory seat. Usually I'd vote Labour or Lib Dem but this time I think I'll just stick a "female biology is not an identity" sticker on my ballot papers cos at least then the candidates see the spoiled ballot and know it's a vote they could have had.

In a marginal I'd probably hold my nose and vote Tory. If Labour or the Lib Dems would see sense on this issue I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.

tabbycatstripy · 06/04/2022 17:46

I think Johnson just had his best day in public life. I’ve seen hundreds of people saying ‘Fucking hell, does this mean I’m voting Tory?’

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bellinisurge · 06/04/2022 17:43

Those fuckwits made it party political . This is on them.

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