R4 PM

Simonedinovoir indeed, he sounded astonished, didn't he! How can he not know that sex and gender are not the same things?? "You're not really saying that a trans woman isn't a woman are you?"

Evan, that notion has not actually been erased from the thinkable (yet). He sounded as though he had never encountered such a bizzarre notion in all his born days

And as for "going as far as saying biology is real" - words fail...

Still can’t believe Maya was sacked for making very similar points to Damien.

rather than playing devil’s advocate!

ED sounded to me like he was genuinely incredulous, rather playing devil’s advocate

I agreed with everything Damien Green said. I felt quite emosh listening actually.

Unlike others, I liked the reference to “trans and non-trans”. Much better than “trans and cis” in my view.

But like others, I was horrified to hear ED suggesting that “biology is real” is an extreme and usual position.

To be fair, I suspect it is considered extreme and unusual in ED’s social circles. I suspect that ED’s social circles are highly unrepresentative of British society and that he lives in the most extraordinary bubble.

Those surveys that ask about whether people support trans rights don’t ask whether biology is real. They’d get some illuminating answers if they did.

I spent some time recently with some Conservative friends who have stopped listening to Radio 4 as they are sick of all the TWAW & assigned at birth nonsense.

Wow, I liked the Tory responses but ED? It was like listening to someone taken in by a cult.

Can someone give him a shake? I always thought he was quite sensible.

allMangyInseamwho
tries to stop them being themselves
I hear this phrase a lot, not least from my teenage daughter. But I find it quite an eyebrow raiser when it comes from the mouth of an adult.

Exactly. These people, like Evan, have never spent time with teenage girls, or understood the impact of puberty on so many of them. They either don't care, are putting thier fingers in their ears to advance an 'LBGT+ ideology they haven't looked into recently, or are actively using the current climate to push an ideology that is abusive.

The good thing is that it’s stuff like this that will make the R4 listener, who until now has thought this is trivial and unimportant, prick up their ears and say WTAF?

And Evan brushes over his comments to ask if focusing on this 'does damage' to the Conservative Party's image?

I'm confused as to whose eyes Evan thinks the Conservative Party is damaged in by this?

The people who think taking a cautious approach, especially where children are concerned, is a damaging position have already spent several years calling all Tories fascists and Nazis anyway.

Thank you pombear, great to be able to read a transcript for those of us who don't have time to listen to the recording.

I respect the fact that Damian Green bothered to mention transmen at all, even though ED fixated on the woman v transwoman debate

who tries to stop them being themselves

I hear this phrase a lot, not least from my teenage daughter. But I find it quite an eyebrow raiser when it comes from the mouth of an adult.

That whole idea is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this kind of discussion.

I refer to Evan as a non sane person then

😄 at ED referring to non-trans people. Bloody hell.

We're at the point of 'do you want to be popular or do you want to be ethically responsible?'

I think JKR had this years ago. 'When it's a choice between doing what is easy and what is right....'

Listening to this, and assuming from Evan's past point of view, he subscribes whollly to the trans activists view of the world.

This was a shocker - Damian highlights the possible physical damage to young teenagers (who we know from statistics are overwhelmingly young girls right now)

And Evan brushes over his comments to ask if focusing on this 'does damage' to the Conservative Party's image?

How can you be a journalist and totally ignore potential physical harm to children, because you're so in thrall to the 'image' ?

DG: So medication, absolutely. The puberty blockers and those sorts of drugs. Which, you know, at best cause permanent alteration and can cause permanent damage. I think doing that to children is abusive.

ED: Does it matter to the Conservative party at this point, or to you as an MP, that a lot of years, really, of hard work of trying to kind of clean up the party’s image with some of the LGBT groups seems to have been lost in the last few days. We’ve had the LGBT business champion, Ian Anderson, stepping down today over this issue.

saying a transwoman is not biologically a woman They aren’t

and biology is real It is

It’s really not that radical

"ED: But I think there would be people in your party who would say that going as far as you do in saying a transwoman is not biologically a woman and biology is real and therefore a transwoman isn’t a woman, they’re a transwoman, and that’s a different category to someone assigned female at birth. By going that far you are really putting a very very large wedge between you and the trans community"

Precisely. By making and insisting on the claim that there is no difference between biological women and trans women, Stonewall and other trans activists have put a very very large wedge between themselves and women.