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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

An excellent article in the Times this evening

30 replies

CythereaGraye · 01/04/2022 17:54

An excellent summary of events by Lucy Bannerman
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2de79110-b1cc-11ec-8570-b43daaf58ea1?shareToken=49b174430aefca41d73ab4a75e4b88e3

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MamaSaidTheredBeDaysLikeThis · 02/04/2022 22:59

Did anyone see the Beaumont Society article on Yahoo News the other day? I wondered if it was a part of a press strategy.

ScrollingLeaves · 02/04/2022 10:42

@NonnyMouse1337
I'd like to see journalists dig deeper now and look at things like the Denton's document (Bannerman uses the term 'veil of secrecy' which is taken from the Denton's document but makes no mention of it anywhere in the article).
Journalists need to look at the Yogyakarta principles which is being naively adopted by various countries and yet it explicitly calls for abolishing the recording of sex as one of its aims. They need to look into Gendered Intelligence, Press For Change, Beaumont Society, and all the other trans and lgbT orgs that continue to exert influence in the UK, Europe and globally away from the spotlight occupied by Stonewall.

@NonnyMouse1337
What you have written is very important imo.
Could you write into The Times? Most people wouldn’t know about all these groups you mention or what they have been doing.

NonnyMouse1337 · 02/04/2022 07:59

It's a good article, especially for those very new to the whole issue. However, I hope Lucy Bannerman and other journalists will continue to investigate and expand on the actual background to this phenomenon.

It's extremely easy to pin all the blame on a single organisation (Stonewall), and I worry there is a lazy narrative developing in media and by commentators that inadvertently gives the impression that the mess we're in is down to one rogue and bad apple called Stonewall. It's not.

Stonewall was an extremely effective vehicle for accelerating the spread of gender identity ideology because it was already well known, well respected and well embedded in various institutions. It's sphere of influence due to gay rights campaigning made it the perfect candidate to switch to gender identity propaganda once same-sex marriage effectively ended its revenue stream.

I'd like to see journalists dig deeper now and look at things like the Denton's document (Bannerman uses the term 'veil of secrecy' which is taken from the Denton's document but makes no mention of it anywhere in the article).
Journalists need to look at the Yogyakarta principles which is being naively adopted by various countries and yet it explicitly calls for abolishing the recording of sex as one of its aims. They need to look into Gendered Intelligence, Press For Change, Beaumont Society, and all the other trans and lgbT orgs that continue to exert influence in the UK, Europe and globally away from the spotlight occupied by Stonewall.

There's been intense lobbying for years in various European / EU institutions to embed gender identity in all kinds of ways so that sex is undermined. There are three main tactics from what I've seen (which is not that different from what takes place here in the UK):

  1. Explicitly include gender identity and take out sex in policies and legislation.
  2. If that raises a stink, keep in sex but use vague words to conflate and confuse, like the interchangeable 'gender'.
  3. If that also raises suspicions, say ok, ok no problem - take out gender identity and gender. Only keep in sex. Everyone is happy. (but if you look at the the tiny, tiny print hidden among all the boring footnotes that accompany policies and legislation, you will see things like 'where sex is stated it includes gender identity'.)

So you see how duplicitous these orgs and activists are? We must never let our guard down and journalists need to start digging deeper now that the can of worms has been opened.
Setting up Stonewall as the bogeyman won't stop the actual rot that's been taking place behind the scenes for decades.

Datun · 02/04/2022 07:33

@Fieldofgreycorn

Thank you for sharing.

why the need for drugs and surgery at all?

Because some people still have severe sex dysphoria and it isn’t cured by self ID.

If adults are living proud trans lives without any medical intervention, if a man can become a woman by simply declaring it to be so

Some are. These may be the majority. But there are still thousands who have extremely challenging painful body sex dysphoria (male and female) and no amount of declarations or clothes or hairstyles will cure it.

So can you explain what is happening with a man who is 'living a proud trans life' with no gender dysphoria at all?

Is that a transvestite?

334bu · 02/04/2022 07:28

Thanks for sharing.

McDuffy · 02/04/2022 07:13

Excellent article, thanks for sharing. We had a family debate last night about my Times subscription cost but it's safe for now Grin

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 01/04/2022 22:47

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I hope readers start to join the dots between the Tavistock and Telford & Shrewsbury too .

Yes Cuck00soup The ability of the NHS to be captured and dictated to by lobbyists with zero medical knowledge pushing their niche ideology is terrifying.

Yes. Whether it's —clinicians who are acting out of their sphere of competence (Webberleys) or whose judgment is impaired by the ideology of zealots and lobbyists (Tavistock and Telford & Shrewsbury) or —lobbyists acting as proxy clinicians and policy makers the impact on the NHS and health and social care has been pernicious.

We've seen the harms of a culture where nobody can speak up for fear of being labelled a bigot or loss of status or even employment. The ready capture by any ideology must be extirpated for patient safety, dignity, safeguarding and many other reasons.

KohlaParasaurus · 01/04/2022 22:29

A well written piece. In the last few days I've started to feel a lot more positive about the future for women and young people.

springtimeishereagain · 01/04/2022 22:23

This is brilliant. So sensible!!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/04/2022 21:42

I hope readers start to join the dots between the Tavistock and Telford & Shrewsbury too .

Yes Cuck00soup The ability of the NHS to be captured and dictated to by lobbyists with zero medical knowledge pushing their niche ideology is terrifying.

Selkiesarereal · 01/04/2022 21:35

Fantastic article, very clear.

PrelateChuckles · 01/04/2022 21:23

Some are. These may be the majority. But there are still thousands who have extremely challenging painful body sex dysphoria (male and female) and no amount of declarations or clothes or hairstyles will cure it.

I appreciate you referring to sex dysphoria. It seems to be a more accurate phrase for people with gender dysphoria (which doesn't account for all people identifying as trans).

I wonder what you think the overlap is (if any) with people who are in the 'other' group?

Cuck00soup · 01/04/2022 21:11

@Awkwardy

Lucy Bannerman has absolutely knocked it out of the park. That is the article I have been waiting to read for years.

Yes. I was so disappointed in the earlier coverage, but this explains how we got here so well.

I hope readers start to join the dots between the Tavistock and Telford & Shrewsbury too.

JustSpeculation · 01/04/2022 21:04

If such a comprehensive account can now be written and published in MSM then there has been a real sea change. This is excellent.

WinterTrees · 01/04/2022 20:32

@Fieldofgreycorn

Thank you for sharing.

why the need for drugs and surgery at all?

Because some people still have severe sex dysphoria and it isn’t cured by self ID.

If adults are living proud trans lives without any medical intervention, if a man can become a woman by simply declaring it to be so

Some are. These may be the majority. But there are still thousands who have extremely challenging painful body sex dysphoria (male and female) and no amount of declarations or clothes or hairstyles will cure it.

I appreciate your point, but I'm genuinely curious (which always sounds kind of goady, but honestly isn't meant to) as to why such extreme dysphoria isn't considered a mental condition and treated accordingly? Similar disconnections between material, physical reality and individual belief would be, I think?
Awkwardy · 01/04/2022 19:13

Lucy Bannerman has absolutely knocked it out of the park. That is the article I have been waiting to read for years.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 01/04/2022 19:12

Fantastic article that clearly explains how we got here & what the problems are

ChampagneCommunist · 01/04/2022 19:10

That article is amazing!

CriticalCondition · 01/04/2022 19:10

That is a brilliant article, thank you for sharing.

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/04/2022 19:09

Thank you for sharing.

why the need for drugs and surgery at all?

Because some people still have severe sex dysphoria and it isn’t cured by self ID.

If adults are living proud trans lives without any medical intervention, if a man can become a woman by simply declaring it to be so

Some are. These may be the majority. But there are still thousands who have extremely challenging painful body sex dysphoria (male and female) and no amount of declarations or clothes or hairstyles will cure it.

Hoardasurass · 01/04/2022 18:56

That a good article that gently brings the uninitiated without being preachy

Joolsin · 01/04/2022 18:55

Excellent article, complete clarity on the steps that brought us to where we are now.

MamaSaidTheredBeDaysLikeThis · 01/04/2022 18:54

There is a lot of talk among activists and transgender “allies” of being “on the right side of history”, a claim that almost always reveals the vanity of people more concerned with recasting themselves as good guys at pivotal moments in counterculture than with solving actual problems. Identity politics, after all, is a competitive field.

Fantastic article. Particularly enjoyed that para ^

What’s the betting the LGBT conference is T, T and T?

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/04/2022 18:48

What a top article. Thank you for sharing!

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