Breaking news - Emily won't compete

Lia Thomas was invited and attended a lunch for all the University of Pennsylvania male swimmers. Lia also attended the women's lunch. Doesn't seem to be any discrimination from the men's team.

There is no reason for transwomen not to compete with men. There is certainly no ban and the only examples I'm aware of, the men were welcoming and supportive. It's all about validation and having no respect for women.

Why won't they accept men who have transitioned from being men to "becoming" women in terms of dress and lifestyle (but remain male in their bodies) on to male teams? Why can't male cycle teams except a non-conformist man on their team? Why is it always women who have to budge up and make space?

But has anyone seen any evidence of men not accepting TW on their teams? I haven’t. Emily Bridges was cycling in a men’s competition only a few weeks ago. Lia Thomas could have swam in the men’s ncaa competition if LT had been good enough but they weren’t. There was a TM in the women’s event so obviously this is possible. Often athletes have been competing at a lower level in the men’s competition. Are they being told that they are not allowed to continue competing with men or do they just fancy they have a better chance of doing well if they switch?

Because as Helen Joyce said in that interview men don't care about women's sport.

How can we have such agreement across this thread and the rule makers do the complete opposite?

That's a very interesting wider point by Helen Joyce that the origin of this has arisen because of misogyny: i.e. most men do not care about women's sport full stop. There is still a massive difference in the sponsorship, media attention, and recognition that both receive. And that is one of the reasons why many women are reluctant to speak out, because they will lose the little sponsorship they have.

And as HJ says, we need men to speak out too! Why won't they accept men who have transitioned from being men to "becoming" women in terms of dress and lifestyle (but remain male in their bodies) on to male teams? Why can't male cycle teams except a non-conformist man on their team? Why is it always women who have to budge up and make space?

Sorry seems to be a bit if problem getting right bit of programme. It starts about 3.04.00

Helen Joyce talking a lot of sense.

Girls participate in sport more when it is segregated by sex than when it is mixed. As it stands, fewer girls engage in sport in primary school than boys and more more girls drop out of sport in their teens than boys. If we remove sex segregation from sport at all levels, fewer girls will participate, it has the potential to have a catastrophic impact on participation at all levels.

You can only believe in this being ok if you believe, deep down, that male people's choices, feelings and self expression matter more than the equality of females.

It's male supremacism, and those pushing this need to own it and be ready to explain and defend it if they seriously want a world where being born female means being a subhuman servant class to male born people (regardless of how that person chooses to identify.)

The sex based thinking always, always underpins the loudly protested spiel about sex not being a thing (except to sort the mummies, nannies, carers and social workers from the service users), no one knows what sex anyone is (but I know who wins and why, and who has to enable or else) and TWAW (except a special kind of women who get to be listened to and prioritised instead of told to shut up, serve, smile and here's a rape threat.

Or the woman who got a serious injury in a contact sports that she wouldn't have sustained against another woman and all the women who see that and decide the game they love to play is not worth their health.

@Fizbosshoes there is also the woman who didn't qualify for the event because there are X number of spaces and she was in X+1 place. Or the women who dropped out because they weren't prepared to make all the sacrifices and do all the training only to see a man take the title. Or the ones that stopped competing because they are unwilling to share are changing room with a penis. One TW in one race or event impacts multiple women every single time.

Women at Derby supporting women.

Fizbosshoes if a man enters a heat in a women''s sport then he is taking a place from a woman. Even if he comes eighth out of eight he has denied a woman a chance of competing, of possible going through to the next round. If he got his place in the heat because he won his school trials then all the girls taking part will see no point in progressing as they know clearly they cannot win against men even if this fairly mediocre male athlete only just beat them. They will drop out of sport.

If a transwoman wins a race/event, every other biological female gets pushed back 1 space. In the first instance, the woman in 2nd misses out on the title (potential) prize money, and opportunities and sponsorship that might come from winning. The woman in 4th place has now missed a medal placing (and the potential prize/opportunities that come with that). That's 2 women already. Why are their training and career prospects less important?

If everyone would just admit that men have a physical advantage over women (which we all know is true) and that therefore former men cannot compete in women's sports competitions then much of the 'anti-trans', terf wars etc etc bollox would disappear.

But transwomen want to compete however unfair it is.

They are only pronouns, just be kind., doesn't hurt you...

If males wanting to participate in women's sports were reported accurately as "he could receive an indefinite ban from women's sports if his inclusion is deemed unfair" then it would be clear what is happening here.

Absolutely agree that one woman affected is one too many. That’s one woman with many people supporting her over many years and spending COUNTLESS hours training.

Thank you, Paula.

So if it was a countable number of women who miss out it wouldn't matter? One woman negatively affected is one too many! Why do these people think men's feelings are so bloody important and women's are so worthless? I can kind of understand men who think like this but why do women line up to hurl other women under the bus? Well done Nicole and Paula.

Wow Paula Radcliffe has chipped in...

twitter.com/paulajradcliffe/status/1510625781881491457

Matt Lawton has published a piece today:

The transgender cyclist prevented from participating in a national track event this weekend could be the subject of an indefinite ban under rules introduced by the Union Cycliste Internationale, the world governing body.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8e9de4a-b2a6-11ec-9af1-7ee554784c95?shareToken=a5ae64ea3655fae12144c922f13942a2

Plus he interviewed women spectators at Derby holding “Save Women’s Sport” banners.

Good to see women being able to voice their opinions on the negative impact of males muscling into women’s sport.

Maybe Bridges should have taken the opportunity of an interview with Lawton to “put their side of the story” after all.

I think these female journalists (and it's nearly always females) just tow the line on trans stuff to get into print. No level headed person can believe that competitors who were men do not have an inbuilt advantage over women when it comes to sport.
So it says more about the state of the journalist's career than about the actual facts of the matter, transwomen in women's sport.

A piece in the Mail on Sunday online:

"Female cyclists had considered BOYCOTTING National Omnium Championships if trans rider Emily Bridges was allowed to race in the row that has rocked the sport... and she could still be banned indefinitely
•Female cyclists wanted to boycott Omnium Championships if trans rider Emily Bridges was allowed to participate
•Bridges was banned from the competition despite lowering testosterone levels
•She could still receive an indefinite ban if a UCI deem her inclusion is unfair
•Sophie Lewis won the Championships, with Neah Evans finishing second "

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10679985/Female-cyclists-considered-BOYCOTTING-Omnium-Championships-Emily-Bridges-allowed-race.html

The Times opinion piece by Pippa York / Robert Millar (you might need to read through gritted teeth) is reporting that Bridges won’t be able to accumulate sufficient UCI accredited competition points to be eligible for the Commonwealth Games.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63c22896-b27f-11ec-9af1-7ee554784c95?shareToken=3c835bc12e74cd59c49c0f0f3a5abf9b