Gender argument - caught in the middle

'What choice does Lia Thomas have?'

Here's the choice, socially transition only, no medication. Continue your career in biological men's category but lobby for every support to make you feel comfortable. Don't wreak havoc on professional sportswomen.

Wait until your career has peaked or you retire, take medication and continue your personal journey.

Guess who makes a similar sacrifice. 1000s of frigging sportswomen, since the beginning of professional women's sports who postpone babies and families for their career. With no tears or tantrums or forcing the system to work for then unfairly.

It's called responsibility, everyone has choices, everyone learns to deal with consequences and in life very few can have their cake and eat it.

All this time before now, they were called gendered pronouns

Tommyrot

Trans women can compete with the men.
Absolutely a ok with me.

“Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.”

Interesting though that because most sports have been created in a patriarchal system, speed is often considered more important than other skills like flexibility and balance. (Obviously wrongly, but this is a world designed by men).

It's interesting that sports like gymnastics which has gravitated toward having a good proportion of participants that are female, have systems that judge and commend the attributes women excel at as part of the sport.

“Lol. Sex based pronouns used since language evolved are recent inventions now are they?

And by transphobes no less.”

Just like "sex-based rights", the phrase "sex-based pronouns" was invented in the recent years by yourselves.

All this time before now, they were called gendered pronouns.

Different does not mean inferior 🙄
An apple is not an orange that is not a value judgement. One of the oft cited differences between male and female bodies is the q angle. This is different because one body has evolved to carry and bare children while the other has not. Side effects of this difference is the bodies design to bear children are as a class slower than those that weren't but have better balance. Which of those in inferior? Speed or balance? It should be blindingly obvious that in different circumstances it will be different bodies. Please don't come on to a feminist board and try to claim that we are calling women inferior.

Yeah, you use the language you do for the purpose of alienating, othering, and villifying trans people, that is certainly clear

If I were speaking to, or in earshot of someone I knew to be trans I would use their preferred pronouns out of politeness. I stand by what I said earlier (or possibly on another thread) about 'othering'. People who are trans ARE 'other'. A transwomen is not the same as a woman. A transman is not the same as a man. They are no better or lesser than any other human being, but they are not the same. They have made themselves 'other' by rejecting their sex class.

Why is refrring to an adult human male as a man (if that is what I see) villifying / alienating?

I think so. It also could explain why Kate survived in the water but Jack succumbed...

Nobody had sex before prounouns existed!

Fantastic.

It's sometimes said that women accepting that men have greater muscle mass, power, larger hearts etc are being sexist. This is a misconception, no doubt fueled by the tough girl/superhero trope in the media since around the eighties(Think Biffy the Vampire Slayer, Marvel etc).

However it's on fwr I learned that women's fat stores allow them to be excellent deep sea pearl divers.
And that women are biologically geared to survive for longer in extreme environments like deserts.
That women's immune systems are generally more robust than men's.
That women have performed better in endurance tests than men (with proportional control)

We are different. Nothing shameful about admitting men have advantage in some areas. Women have plenty of natural attributes men don't share.

Accepting we are different yet equal is feminist.

Pretending we are all the same does no one any favours.

And by transphobes no less.

Wow who knew? Oh my days, do keep them coming.

Shhhhh now the grown ups are speaking

I didn’t think Easter holidays started till next week

whereas trans people are the ones arguing that sex shouldn't matter and that all people should be treated as equal.

If sex doesn't matter and everyone is equal, what are they transing from and to?

Honestly this nonsense has to stop.

Following on from FOJNs point, I wonder if op has any questions regarding facts they would like to know. (That's assuming that they haven't read the Break it down thread.)

Men are not women.
They are other. The other sex.
Sex based pronouns are sex based.
There are hundreds of neo pronouns to express whatever gender identity you want to express.
Most humans understand pronouns as sex based.
So you'd do well to find your own words.

Our words like our spaces are not up for grabs.

“Yes, the thing about pronouns as a courtesy is for it to work everyone has to know that it's a falsehood.”

That's the thing; it isn't a falsehood. You've just come to associate feminine pronouns with certain body types and physical characteristics, but there's nothing inherently "factual" about that association.