Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender argument - caught in the middle

444 replies

Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 18:42

I feel totally caught in the middle in this brave new world of gender ID and I guess I’m just looking for somewhere to vent without getting piled on.

I just think the argument has become so unbelievably divided that there’s no room for mediation any more.

On the one hand I see a mean girls club basically bullying trans women online and selectively finding examples of criminals etc to prove a point.

On the other I think the sports industry / politicians are so scared to put a foot wrong they are throwing trans women to the wolves. Like surely there should be some debate and policy making going on. You can’t have trans women dominating womens sports as they have an unfair advantage. Professional bodies should be having serious conversations about this.

In terms of changing rooms etc we need to make sure everyone is happy and feels comfortable. Personally I hate changing in front of others regardless of their gender at birth - why can’t we more provision for individual changing rooms for both men and women?

Like I get how women are so protective of their rights but it’s not like trans people haven’t faced discrimination and prejudice too.

I just hate how I can’t feel like I can’t say these things publicly without being branded a terf or a gender traitor. Stifling debate like this is not healthy!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 19:03

Lol ok this thread has confirmed my suspicions that you can’t have a reasonable conversation on this topic without being attacked. I’ll just go back to saying nothing!

OP posts:
FOJN · 30/03/2022 19:03

Like I get how women are so protective of their rights but it’s not like trans people haven’t faced discrimination and prejudice too.

I don't think it's reasonable to ask women to sacrifice their own rights to protect another group from discrimination. We are not the one being violent or abusive.

If being honest about the material reality of biological sex makes me a "mean girl" then so be it.

I suspect your understanding of the issues and the background is not as comprehensive as you think it is.

AlisonDonut · 30/03/2022 19:03

@Baggingarea

I guess you are right *@AlisonDonut* but also who cares about women and also trans women. Both play second fiddle I suppose.
I always read things these ays through the lens of 'who loses out here". In every instance, women lose out to trans women so how you can say trans women are playing 'second fiddle' I have no idea.

All I know is the tide is most definitely turning, what with all the recent kerfuffle and the volume on people coming here to tell us all off going up to 11.

SolasAnla · 30/03/2022 19:03

Wolves have not been native to the British Isles for centuries.

There has been a number of campaign's to try reintroduce them as unlike Europe there is no land links to allow wolves repopulate by natural roaming

They have an interesting history

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_in_Great_Britain

Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 19:02

I think both sides are calling names - and the bekind crew are the worst for it (no matter what side they are on!) That’s why I feel caught in the middle. I am sure there are plenty like me.

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 30/03/2022 19:02

My rights as a woman are not up for grabs to any man who claims to feel like a woman (whatever that means) and most importantly they are not for men or other women to take away from me without my consent

AlisonDonut · 30/03/2022 19:01

Does 'naive' now mean 'disingenuous'?

Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 19:01

I guess you are right @AlisonDonut but also who cares about women and also trans women. Both play second fiddle I suppose.

OP posts:
Crcohetmonster · 30/03/2022 18:59

So which side is issuing rape threats, death threats and enduring women lose jobs? Maybe go to those people and ask them to #bekind? Talk to them about not calling people names and dehumanising people.

tabbycatstripy · 30/03/2022 18:59

‘I just don’t get why saying let’s not be horrendous to an individual is oppressing womens legal rights?’

Define ‘being horrendous to an individual’ and we can all consider it?

AlisonDonut · 30/03/2022 18:57

@Baggingarea

No I mean trans women are. Yes it’s unfair on biological women but at the end of the day who is letting them compete? They shouldn’t be the subject of all this hats because sports officials have buried their heads in the sand.
I think the threats of doxxing, rape and death show why people are petrified and bury their heads in the sand, if it just means women lose out. It's only women. Who gives a shit about women?
Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 18:56

Sorry I meant somebody born male. I just don’t get why saying let’s not be horrendous to an individual is oppressing womens legal rights? There should be a middle ground where everyone (or at least most of us) are happy. Sorry if I’m naive.

OP posts:
Baggingarea · 30/03/2022 18:54

No I mean trans women are. Yes it’s unfair on biological women but at the end of the day who is letting them compete? They shouldn’t be the subject of all this hats because sports officials have buried their heads in the sand.

OP posts:
jkrfan · 30/03/2022 18:53

@FreelanceFiona

Trans women aren't being thrown to the wolves in sport - women are. Is that what you meant?
Yes poster seems to have confused their terms. Some people seem to think a 'transwoman' is a man who presents as a woman but a 'trans woman' is a woman who presents as a man. It is very confusing and the TRAs benefit from this confusion. OP - I object to women defending their LEGAL sex-based rights being called 'mean girls' though.
Abitofalark · 30/03/2022 18:51

You've got a nerve, coming on here with a slur like that - while pretending to be oh so reasonable. I'll give you that.

FreelanceFiona · 30/03/2022 18:48

Trans women aren't being thrown to the wolves in sport - women are. Is that what you meant?

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/03/2022 18:46

Who was it who said #NoDebate?

AlisonDonut · 30/03/2022 18:46

Men pose the same threats to women and girls, whether or not they say they are trans.

In fact, 20% of male prisoners are there for sexual related offences, and this rises to 50% for men who say they are trans. So not hard to find these mysterious criminals is it?

Why shouldn't we be protective of our rights?

tabbycatstripy · 30/03/2022 18:44

Don’t worry. None of this makes you sound like a terf. You’re off the island and in the clear blue water.