Gender argument - caught in the middle

[quote Baggingarea]@PrelateChuckles but most people do only hear about this conversation on twitter. I’m not sure that invalidates it but I do see your point.[/quote]
Why do you think that?
You're deliberately choosing to be misinformed if you are only reading Twitter.

I think two things that tipped me over the neutral line were the transwoman running a woman’s refuge and a transwoman ( part time ) winning an award for being a business woman of the year .

Oh plus biological men being asked if they are pregnant .

It’s bonkers , totally bonkers

And if we’re being mean girls, baggsy Regina George

1. Use the name, and dress as a woman.
2. Recognise that being biologically male carries performance advantages, so continue to swim in the men's team, albeit under the name 'Lia' and in a female suit.
3. Get changed in a neutral space.

Instead Lia chooses to compete with the women, win races due to biological advantage, and change in the women's changing room which has at times meant other team members have seen Lia's genitals.

The ones who really have no choice here are the women who can either quit swimming (which may mean losing their college place) or suck up taking their clothes off around an anatomical male.

Lia has choices.

It’s not mean to prioritise safeguarding of women and children. It’s irrelevant how males identify, in womens spaces they pose the same serious risk.

Is there a particular aspect of GC feminism you disagree with, op? By which i mean it's an aspect that GC feminists would agree is an accurate representation of their position.

If so, please set it out clearly. Otherwise it looks like you're saying "some people are mean so anyone that says anything similar to their position is factually incorrect", which obviously wouldn't be a very intelligent argument.

Next we’ll have committed “literal violence” by not agreeing to all be nice and just handing our rights over.

I’m also expected to shut up and not have my own view. Does anyone else see the irony?

Have you been told to shut up or have we simply pointed out the flaws in your arguements? Posting on MN isn't compulsory, you voluntarily created a thread to tell us your views and we're telling you we disagree with you and suggesting you may need to do a little more research and thinking before informing us we're all mean girls.

So on the one hand I’m apparently telling everyone to be kind and silencing them but on the other I’m also expected to shut up and not have my own view. Does anyone else see the irony?*

Who's telling you to shut up? This is a discussion forum and people (mainly women) are disagreeing with you.

Have you posted the like / been on any trans forums saying where is the middle ground?

If so, which ones?
If not, why not?

Of course you can have your own view. But people not agreeing with your view doesn't mean you are 'being attacked.

I think you could have been a tad more pleasant, with less throwing around misogynistic slurs we all get called here and you are saying you shouldn't be called, when wanting to have this "take the heat out of the debate" conversation with GC feminists, really.

I'm not on a "side". I consider myself and many feminists on here to be in the middle - respectful of trans people (proven criminals excepted, as with nearly anyone regardless of their characteristics) , happy for 3rd spaces for trans ppl, and actively asking for better evidenced treatment and safeguarding for children who may be trans.

If you're getting your info from Twitter you're doing it wrong.

[quote Baggingarea]@Crcohetmonster no I didn’t. I asked why can’t you see both sides of the argument without getting abused?[/quote]
I can understand you getting frustrated that you’re not having the discussion you felt you wanted, but I’m seeing disagreement, not abuse.

Who is being abusive?

Doe eyed innocence is sarcastic, but I certainly wouldn’t say it was abusive??

Yeah, I can't take the 'two sides are as bad as each other' thing seriously.

There's no GC equivalent to this - www.terfisaslur.com

The death and rape threats are coming from only one side.

[quote Baggingarea]@Crcohetmonster no I didn’t. I asked why can’t you see both sides of the argument without getting abused?[/quote]
I can see both sides. I see the rape threats, death threats, violence and it’s all coming from one side of this issue. Clue, it’s not the GC side. Maybe have a word with the other side.

I believe trans women are trans women.

I believe transwomen are transwomen too which means they are adult human males or they would be women which are adult human females. There are only two sexes and you cannot be a transwoman unless you are male.

Examples - people posting pictures of Lia Thomas and saying “you can’t tell me this is a woman”. That feels personal and hurtful.

How is that personal or hurtful. LT is a transwoman competing, with a significant advantage, against women. How are women supposed to highlight the unfairness of that without mentioning that LT is male? That LT is male is the reason it's unfair. Should the women who have trained for years give up their sporting ambitions so that they don't cause offence?

Are you sure you don't think women should just STFU?

If this is the OP’s definition of being attacked, no wonder they think stating biological facts is cruel. And if they think this is mean girls, they’ve never dealt with teenage girls.

Some of Lia Thomas' female teammates allege that Lia exposes Lia's genitals to them. They've complained but no one gives a fuck. Who has the power there, OP?

You can't have transwomen being the first woman CEO/frontline soldier/woman on the moon/ whatever either.

Lia can swim with the men because lia is a man

Lis has chosen to invade woman’s sport

Swimming may be arseholes for allowing it but no one is forcing lia to swim are they

I have 0 sympathy