Labour MP says women don't have penises

Thank you, Siobhan. She is listening, she is trying to hear what women are saying, she is trying to be fair. I hope she keeps thinking.

(and thank you Julia for being brilliant on this, too).

It's appalling that the GRA was ever introduced, the reduction of women to stereotypes and the insistence that a surgically or cosmetically altered man is somehow a woman and can have a female maker on his Birth Certificate shows exactly what those drafting it and implementing it thought and think of women.

One of these days you will realise the full disinformation and consequences of what you're espousing. I am here so you know that you have the option of a golden bridge on that day and not just the choice of doubling down in pursuit of the hobgoblin of consistency.

Julia HB is brilliant on this subject. The MP was too vague...there is not hatred on both sides, there is mounting horror from concerned women that single sex spaces are being dismantled, our daughters are being forced to compete against males in sports and normal safeguarding is being ignored because of an ideology. (Girl Guides for starters.) The potential for men to pretend to be transsexuals, to access womens 'single sex safe spaces' is the problem. The fact that the law recognises male bodied adults as women, is the problem-the GRA has to be repealed. There really is no middle ground here. Men should never have been told they could alleviate their disphoria by pretending to be a woman-there has to be a better treatment for them. Expand the bandwidth of being a man-don't pretend humans can change sex.

Both of those are active choices.

Twitter is the place they go to vilify people who think differently and praise those who agree with them.

#bekind
Actually means
#bequiet

I've noticed everyone is becoming very aggressive about this issue on my facebook - people who have been friends for years posting things like - if you don't believe transgender women are actually women then do me a favour and unfriend me.
These are people around my age - 50's and 60's not youngsters.
So it's ok to cancel people with a differing opinion from yourself is it?
I'm just getting sick of it all.

AlsoNot:

Exactly, that's the issue. I say I think X but I don't mind Y, then the argument comes back that it would be unkind to establish Y so I have to accept Z.

But no, I go back to X. If we can't establish who has had surgery, then I have to say no males at all.

I don't doubt there is a huge amount of bias in that poll!!

Imagine me telling my kids in 15 years time that people believed that women had penis.

Bonkers. Batshit bonkers

At the risk of sounding cynical all I can see is someone trying to undo some of the damage Labour has done to it's self over this issue and she's not doing it very well.

Let me think how sponsored that particular poll?

I believe Monty's set off a siren.

What about the women who do mind?

Have you seen the poll results?!?!

She's scared. She knows exactly what comes of being a gender heretic.

So what if she still holds - or rather, expresses in public - some wonky beliefs? She gets the really important parts & was non-committal at best on the other bits.

She she showed 100% more consideration for women than most of the labour party.

It is a start at least. A hesitant start, but one that will hopefully shine a light to others.

It's a start but I suspect she thinks that if a man has his penis removed then he is a woman for all intents and purposes which he isn't and it is fucking insulting to both men and women.

A women is not a surgically or cosmetically altered man ffs.

'I disagree, she went round in circles, she said she thinks they can become women when they transition.'

I don't have a problem with the 'for most intents and purposes' point of view. I don't literally think anyone changes sex but I accept that some people who have had surgery have gone through as much of a sex change as it's possible to go through. I don't actually mind a person who has had reassignment surgery sharing toilets and so on. I think it's about 800 people.

The problem for me is that we're not allowed (legally) to exclude on that distinction. We're only allowed to rule on natal sex.

I hope more Labour MPs follow her lead. Wow, isn’t it rare to see any kind of leadership within Labour! Apart from the wonderful Rosie Duffield of course.

I really hope Labour distance themselves from the trans extremist women-haters before the next election. I despise Boris Johnson and don’t want to vote for him, can’t believe I’m considering it, but only his party acknowledges my right to say that I exist as a category different from transwomen. And my right to say that I exist is important to me.

It’s so hard. Last two elections I voted Liberal and Green but they have gone mad too. There is literally no one left to vote for.

I disagree, she went round in circles, she said she thinks they can become women when they transition.

When questioned about hatred, the first Group she talked about was TRAs which I was surprised by. She was clear JK Rowling is a national hero - good start.

Other than that, she sounds like an awful lot of people on here before they realised the were GC. She wants people the be able to live their lives. Generally ok with transwomen in safe spaces post surgery (which plenty of us were fine with/tolerated before the last few years) but no women don't have penises... I got the impression she's just not confident about it all yet given how contentious the debate is, and is conflicted between what she's (likely) being told by the party (nasty GC right wingers are just trying to deflect from the disasters of the Conservatives so avoid the questions) and her gut reaction (well obviously a man isn't a woman and why on earth are people being so vile to JKR when she's fabulous).

I see her leaning to GC more than Genderist in reality. Whether she'll be willing to nail her colours to the mast or will just follow the party line for self preservation is a different question, but the hesitation and confusion isn't exactly unusual for someone who hasn't been embroiled in the debate for years like others, so, in lieu of a firm GC position, I'd rather hesitation and a bit of hedging while she considers it, than a definitive 'of course women have penises and don't you know transwomen can have a cervix'.

I got the impression she can sort of see what's going on, but is looking through the frosted glass rather than opening the window and seeing clearly.

Time will tell (and this might age very poorly!) but I hope common sense will prevail.

Maybe she has ambitions: From yesterday questioning Rishi Sunak at a Treasury Committee evidence session. Labour MP Siobhain McDonagh
‘We have a tax burden rising to the highest level since the 1940s, the worst fall in living standards since the 1950s, public sector net debt reaching the highest level since the 1960s and real earnings growth facing the largest one-year drop since the 1970s.’

[quote ChocoholicContralto]TRAs have hijacked the linked poll though 😡 mobile.twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1508729013732265990[/quote]
Someone's said it changed in 10 mins from 97% to whatever it is now.

Parties who take Twitter polls seriously will most likely regret it.