Sir Keir Starmer on women's rights, sport, and penises, in LBC interview

I do wonder if Labour really want to be in power. This issue is huge and if they don’t sort this out and carry on with these sorts of interviews in the run up to the next GE they will be a laughing stock.

Starmer is certainly a small improvement on Corbyn but I don’t see any attempt at trying to get themselves ready to take on the Tories. I am no fan of Labour but a strong Opposition really helps and all they seem to do is moan and groan. They don’t seem to be interested in winning.

Labour, and progressive political types generally, have adopted a worldview that sees human dignity as something that comes from validation of internalized identities, and social justice as equality of outcome in terms of these identities. Furthermore, individuals within these groups have no real autonomy or individuality politically speaking - one political position defines the identity (you aren't really black if you vote for Trump kind of approach,) their place in society and personal challenges are entirely determined by systemic social structure and their place in relation to other groups that are oppressors or oppressed.

That's how they see truth justice, and gender ideology is impossible to reject if that's what you believe.

I'm also a bit surprised at the suggestion that people are uncomfortable saying the word penis.

Course, that could just be because in the last five or six years, I've personally said it 28,463 times.

Poor James Kirkup probably can’t type in in pe now without his autocorrect suggesting penis. Thanks again James for your consistently excellent, on the money articles on this issue over the last few years. 🍺

I'm quite enjoying reading this Spectator piece inspired by Keir Starmers interview www.spectator.co.uk/article/starmer-won-t-talk-about-sex-and-gender-that-s-a-problem

I know the trans movement is massively well funded, and of course Big Pharma benefits from people on lifelong medication. Also, anyone can be corrupted. But money doesn't (to me) seem enough of a motivation to career politicians, whose politics are their lives.

I know transactivists can make life hell for anyone who crosses them. But come on, a whole political party could stand up against them!

I know 'social justice' ideology with its very partial hierarchy of victimhood has skewed a lot of people's view of justice and fair play. But most politicians grew up before 'social justice' and identity politics gained such a hold over young people.

So why do they make themselves look like either fools or liars, by supporting an ideology very few adults believe in? Why do they parrot slogans that they know are easily disproved?

I'm not shocked that politicians may be stupid or dishonest. I'm just baffled that they should nail their colours to such a rickety mast.

Yet that's what is demanded by both transwomen who want those rights to be totally redefined as unrelated to the sexed body, and trans men and nonbinary female-bodied peole who want the female body not to be called female any longer

Yep and therefore a total ignoring of all the decades of evidence which shows biological females disadvantage and oppression - not one bit of which was based on anyone's identity. So either they don't care about those proven facts or... oh hang about, there is no 'or'. They're just demonstrating that they don't care. We need a viable labour leader who actually truly believes in equality, not just equality for men however they choose to identify.

Yes. Trans rights are human rights. Women aren't human and don't have any rights. An election winning slogan, not.

Yet that's what is demanded by both transwomen who want those rights to be totally redefined as unrelated to the sexed body, and trans men and nonbinary female-bodied peole who want the female body not to be called female any longer.

When you do those things the sex class 'women' goes up in smoke. Poof. So it can't have any particular sex-based rights.

And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

They can't arrest us all!!!!

What also pisses me off is when a question is asked on women (as above on the Mumsnet chat with Starmer) and the answer is trans rights are human rights. What the fuck!

I'm still raging about his cowardly stance on this. And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

Just listened again. Slimy bastard accusing people of intolerance because they don't want to let men into women's spaces. Slimy bastard pretending that he supports 'women's safe spaces' when all he really supports is his own career and fuck who pays the price. That man is disgusting. He can't even be bothered to take his head out his arse long enough to realise that saying 'I support women's spaces' whilst refusing to acknowledge what a woman actually is means jack shit. I have the rage against this kind of enabling arsehole .

Having watched this, i do think Keir is cracking slightly - he knows it's utter bullshit, he knows the electorate aren't buying it and he knows that he is losing loads of support because of this issue. He's not stupid and I am actually kind of fascinated to see how this will play out. Of course at the same time it's completely depressing to see that for so long they thought they could take women for such utter mugs.

So Kier - Are you making everything mixed sex? Mixed sexed changing rooms, mixed sexed prisons and mixed sex sports?

Don't know if any of you listen to the 'For the Many ' podcast with Iain Dale and Jacqui Smith, but this was discussed briefly on the podcast this week and at the time it made me unaccountably furious and I've been trying to put into words why.

Iain said he will never ask the question 'What is a woman' because it's a cheap gotcha, Jacqui just vilely dismissive of any women who raises a concern, I've never heard her sound so nasty about any other topic or so dismissive or so willing to dismiss concerns as ignorance.
I think she's an important figure in the NHS in her area, was wondering if any of the women who've contacted Baroness Nicholson work/were treated in her health authority.

Anyway it was the nasty aggressive tone from Smith that really got me, frankly she sounded no better than any TRA on twitter and this was the day after the meeting in Manchester was disrupted. And after listening to it I want them to lose, I want them to lose badly, really badly, I want them to learn to show some respect to their potential voters. She couldn't conceive why it mattered to women, she just couldn't understand it.

And the longer it goes on, the more it becomes THE issue for so many women. I never miss their podcast, I love it, but I was so incensed at their attitude that I don't even know if I can listen again. It just felt that I had nothing in common with them whatsoever and it really upset me, but then of course it made me more angry and more determined to keep buggering on.

Asked by a caller whether it was fair that transgender women were allowed to compete in women’s sports, Sir Keir said it was a matter “for the sporting bodies to decide for themselves”, acknowledging that there were “difficult questions”.

Will fucking answer them then, you dingbat!

Honestly, this is ridiculous. I want to talk, we need to talk, we need to remain calm, but I can't actually formulate any words to do with it.

Leave it up to the sporting bodies. Christ. Copout King.

we need to ensure that this debate is conducted respectfully and calmly

And preferably with no words involved at all

This from the shut your eyes, cross your fingers and hope frantically that the nasty bits of reality can be hidden under a rug somewhere school of politics.

Donors was my theory too, especially after reading of the LP's financial woes. Shame they pissed off JKR really.

But this still doesn't answer it in full. Imagine KS admitted that women and women and TW are TW. For sure, there'd be an almighty tantrum, but honestly, then what?

We are still 2.5 years out from an election. Time enough for the tantrummers to stop stomping. It's not like they are going to vote Tory.

Times have gone with the use of the Land Rover. The Telegraph with the 'penis' question.
Over 1200 comments

Hopefully someone may have an archive version.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/03/28/keir-starmer-refuses-answer-whether-woman-can-have-penis-latest

Provide Third Spaces, facilities, resources, services. Which are mixed sex, gender neutral, will be used by TQ+ people and Layla Moran and the many other women who are happy to use mixed sex spaces, plus parents with opposite sex children. It's progressive, inclusive, the blueprint on how to do it is right there and has been done before when providing accessible toilets became law, government and LA funding plus the big TQ+ charities pushing for this - it could be up and done in a couple of years at most.

This.

[quote Camdenish]Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3810484-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Sir-Keir-Starmer-MP-on-Monday-February-3-at-1-30pm?pg=1[/quote]
The relevant posts seem to be:

"
StealthPolarBear
Hello Keir
More than 200 of us are worried about gender issues and the conflict with the rights of women and children.
These are issues that affect the fundamental rights of half the population. They are across every conceivable layer of public policy, and affect us from cradle to grave. The issues are varied, ranging from men on women's sport, the impact of self ID on women's safety, the spousal exit clause and the emphasis on transition of children, including puberty blockers.
Are you concerned about any or all of these issues? How do you plan to ensure the rights of natal women and children?

Thank you for this question - I know it’s a really important topic on Mumsnet and for parents.
Trans rights are human rights. I have met with members of the trans community and I know this is a group of people who have been subjected to incredible abuse and discrimination for a very long time.
But this conversation has become incredibly heightened, and I do understand the points being made on all sides. But if we just treat this as a political football, we are not being fair to anyone. I do believe we need to update the Gender Recognition Act. But what we need right now is a respectful dialogue that doesn’t pit one set of concerns against others. If elected leader, that’s a dialogue I would want to help facilitate.

rogdmum
Hi Keir

My 14 year old daughter recently announced that she identifies as a boy. She falls under the loose description of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) where adolescents who did not show any signs of gender identity issues as children, develop gender confusion as adolescents. Many of these adolescents are autistic or have suffered from trauma or have serious mental health issues.

Referrals to the Tavistock clinic have skyrocketed from around 100 a decade ago to 2600 last year. The Government agreed to carry out an investigation into the sudden rise, but it appears to have vanished into some hole somewhere.

What will you do to raise awareness of this issue and ensure a proper investigation is carried out?

Thanks rogdmum for this question and for sharing your family's experience. I'm acutely aware of the anxiety and distress that this causes to individuals and families. This has to be seen as a human rights issue and we need to ensure that this debate is conducted respectfully and calmly, and with the best interests of children at heart."

TL:DR?
"Updating" the GRA is a goal ✅
Trans rights are human rights ✅
Women raising concerns about their rights will be told to be calm, their rights won't be recognised in answers ✅
Women raising concerns about ROGD will be told to be calm, the rights of children to grow unmedicalised and (likely) into same-sex attracted adults won't be recognised in answers ✅

Whole thing is pointless.

Many people, when faced with having to say something about transgenderism which will appear to be 'unkind' towards a vulnerable young person they know who is caught up in this, will try to avoid the question.

I don't think it's a case of 'follow the money' in this case. I think it's much more personal, and is to do with the fact that so many children, in particular teenage girls, now identify as trans. I think it was Emily Thornberry who mentioned at one point that she has a close relative who identifies as a transman. How many other MPs are in a similar position, or have a close friend whose child identifies as transgender, making them terrified to speak out because of the potential personal consequences and the effect they think this will have on the vulnerable young person?

I wonder how it is that this is treated so differently from other youth cultures? I mean young people have always tried to find something to wind up the generation above them. But this time instead of gently pushing back the generation above seem hell bent on enabling it to the point that they are creating crazy laws, stamping down on free speech and encouraging the medicalisation of children. I mean wtf can't the grown ups just go "you can do what you like once you are 18 but until then..." why is everyone bending over backwards to pander to what is clearly a trend?