Page 6 | To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

TeaKlaxon · 2022-03-28T08:33:32+00:00

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms. Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong. The Barbican itself told her it's wrong. But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'? [[https://twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw]]

Helleofabore · 29/03/2022 14:45

If you think you're not a Tory but are just cosying up to them because you think owning the trans is more important than upending the destructive right wing agenda the Tories have implemented for 12 years, then you still don't have the credibility to lecture anyone about the interests of women.

Sigh... it continues.

Now feminists are 'owning the trans'. Hands up any poster on this board who which to 'own the trans' rather than simply maintain the rights and protections for women and children where they come into conflict with another group's rights?

Anyone? Any takers?

No?

Another tactic. This one is the cognitive distortion of 'Polarisation.' Or as I like to call it absolutism fuckery.

This tactic also seeks to separate out the female trans people that we seek to ensure get to keep their protections and rights that they need as they too have a female sexed body. So, it is also another misdirection and misrepresentation.

Speaking of which, OP, you seem very low on credibility to be lecturing anyone.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/03/2022 14:44

You're half-right. Most people don't have any idea about the issue, imo. But when I casually mention the prospect of mixed-sex toilets to most women who don't use social media, they have opinions about that! They really, really do.

And if they ever do end up in a theatre that charges £30-70 a ticket (like one place already discussed) and find the toilet provision inadequate, they won't much want to repeat the experience!

334bu · 29/03/2022 14:44

90% of a theatre's customers will not base their decision to go there on its toilet policy. They will go because they, y'know, want to see whatever show or exhibition is on etc.

You are quite correct however, they might not go back if they have a poor experience.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 29/03/2022 14:42

@girlmom21

She was laughed at for asking where the ladies toilets were - whether you choose to believe it or not. Can you imagine the ushers response if she followed that up with 'can I speak to the manager?' based on the stereotype you've suggested this woman fits in?

FFS - yeah that's it. She didn't complain because she thought she might be thought badly of. Rather than because making up a cock and bull story to an MP with a history of lying is an easier way to push an agenda.

Meanwhile, when I asked for my burger without cheese recently, it came with cheese anyway and the server scoffed at me when I asked for a new one. I was going to complain to the manager but I now see i should be complaining to my MP. Because that is totally normal behaviour...

OP posts:

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 14:41

90% of a theatre's customers will not base their decision to go there on its toilet policy. They will go because they, y'know, want to see whatever show or exhibition is on etc.

Based on what research, opinion polls etc?

Or are you making that up, aka lying ?

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 14:40

I love this weird dichotomy.

Pity you don't love a basic dictionary - see my earlier post

girlmom21 · 29/03/2022 14:40

She was laughed at for asking where the ladies toilets were - whether you choose to believe it or not. Can you imagine the ushers response if she followed that up with 'can I speak to the manager?' based on the stereotype you've suggested this woman fits in?

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 14:39

Oh Marg you are so very late to this party... and look, what you shoehorned in

If this is to do with transpeople, then that's something to take up with the Equality Act 2010

Not quite the issue is it? We are, as ever, discussing women's rights.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 29/03/2022 14:38

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

It is the tactic to paint women who disagree with changing toilets into mixed sex only as middle class, white, middle aged women. And it fails whenever anyone starts to point out evidence and starts to unravel that tired old trope

I was waiting for that card to be played, too.

If London arts centres and theatres will find it easily financially viable to do without income from gender-critical feminists and women who want single-sex toilets, as Tea has claimed they will, then that suggests that trans activists/people who prioritise trans inclusion above all other else must be extremely monied.

I've always thought so, but it was nice to see Tea confirm it. Pretty funny to see Tea sprinting for the "you're middle class and don't know about electricity meters" button within a few pages of proudly claiming that theatres could survive on the trans activist pound alone.

I love this weird dichotomy.

In your world the only customers a theatre might have as mythical 'trans activists' or gender crits.

The sad, sad truth is that most people - including most women - don't give a shit about your weird little witch hunts about every venue that you deem to be insufficiently hostile to trans people.

90% of a theatre's customers will not base their decision to go there on its toilet policy. They will go because they, y'know, want to see whatever show or exhibition is on etc.

If you lot could only see how profoundly irrelevant you are to most people who do not spend their time obsessing about toilets, you might stop imagining that anyone will care about your little boycott. I'd quite welcome the safe knowledge that someone I got chatting to in the queue of a bar at the theatre isn't a secret transphobe.

OP posts:

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/03/2022 14:38

Current Labour/Lib-Dems/Greens: "think owning the feminists is more important than upending the destructive right wing agenda the Tories have implemented for 12 years, and think they have the credibility to lecture anyone about the interests of the poor"

Helleofabore · 29/03/2022 14:35

I hope she made a formal complaint.

She has. Via her MP.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 29/03/2022 14:33

@Franca123

I'm a 'Tory' now because I disagree with the OP's extrene agenda. Actually, I was a very active Lib Dem for a couple of decades before they decided that women's rights weren't allowed to be spoken about. But so what if I were a Tory? Are Tories not allowed opinions in this brave new world you're building?

The Tories are a far bigger danger to women's interests than GN toilets.

If you were a Tory, then yes, you'd be part of that and would have no credibility to lecture anyone about the interests of women.

If you think you're not a Tory but are just cosying up to them because you think owning the trans is more important than upending the destructive right wing agenda the Tories have implemented for 12 years, then you still don't have the credibility to lecture anyone about the interests of women.

OP posts:

MyLittlePhonyPony · 29/03/2022 14:33

She presumably complained to her own MP, as if you bring a concern to a random MP, they are not obliged to address it.

Not that MPs always reply anyway, but in theory that's how it should work.

SamphiretheStickerist · 29/03/2022 14:32

I think you should learn what derogation means.

I suspect you meant denigration?

Well, you suspect wrong then

Oxford English Dictionary is a joy in this matter

Derogation:

the perception or treatment of someone or something as being of little worth.

"the derogation of women"

Cambridge version just as much

Derogation: the act of talking about or treating someone in a way that shows you do not respect him, her, or it

MargaritaPie · 29/03/2022 14:32

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Took me seconds to find out that yes they do have women's toilets

Yes but their definition of women includes men, so men get to piss anywhere they like and women still get no penis free toilets.

If this is to do with transpeople, then that's something to take up with the Equality Act 2010.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 29/03/2022 14:30

@DdraigGoch

When a woman doesn't want to use gender neutral toilets at the Barbican and is faced with a choice of:

(a) using any of the five womens toilets available;

@TeaKlaxon how can she? The usher wouldn't give her directions.

So she says.

That's utter nonsense though.

Which is presumably why she complained to an MP with a history of lying rather than a manager at the Barbican who could have sorted the issue out quickly.

Much easier to go to an MP who will uncritically push out whatever nonsense claim you come out with than a manager who can actually speak to the Usher and find out what actually happened.

OP posts:

FunnyTalks · 29/03/2022 14:28

I've literally never a met a gender critical tory voting feminist!

I know loads of lefty feminists who either vote or used to vote Labour or Green. And a handful who would describe themselves as "liberal" (but who are still feminists - being critical of gender is pretty inherent to feminism).

I also know a few Conservative voters who aren't feminists but don't participate in the lie that humans can change sex.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/03/2022 14:28

@MargaritaPie

www.barbican.org.uk/your-visit/general-info/toilets

Took me seconds to find out that yes they do have women's toilets.

I find it very hard to believe that staff would laugh in her fact for asking where the women's toilets were, but if it happened I hope she made a formal complaint.

The explanatory text is in desperate need of an overhaul to be in line with Clear or Plain English.

However, it's also plai that the Barbican acknowledges that facilities aren't always readily available:

we recognise that there sometimes isn’t space in every venue for each of the toilet facilities we provide.

Text from link as below.

---
Gender neutral toilets are located by Cinema 1 and The Pit theatre on Level -2. These toilets are marked as gender neutral for use by both those who don’t identify with a binary gender and those who do. Visitors who prefer to use gendered toilets can do so at the facilities bearing men’s and women’s gendered symbols, located throughout the centre.
…
Women’s toilets can be found on Level -1 by the Hall, Level G in the Fountain Room and Kitchen, Level 3 by the Art Gallery, in the Theatre foyer, in the Conservatory, in all of our restaurants and cafés, and Auditorium 1 and 2. The largest women’s toilets are those on Level -1

With the layout of our buildings, we recognise that there sometimes isn’t space in every venue for each of the toilet facilities we provide. This is something we’ll be addressing and improving as part of our upcoming renewal project. You’ll always be able to find a toilet for your needs though by speaking to one of our hosts who’ll be happy to point you in the right direction.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/03/2022 14:26

It is the tactic to paint women who disagree with changing toilets into mixed sex only as middle class, white, middle aged women. And it fails whenever anyone starts to point out evidence and starts to unravel that tired old trope

I was waiting for that card to be played, too.

If London arts centres and theatres will find it easily financially viable to do without income from gender-critical feminists and women who want single-sex toilets, as Tea has claimed they will, then that suggests that trans activists/people who prioritise trans inclusion above all other else must be extremely monied.

I've always thought so, but it was nice to see Tea confirm it. Pretty funny to see Tea sprinting for the "you're middle class and don't know about electricity meters" button within a few pages of proudly claiming that theatres could survive on the trans activist pound alone.

BacklashBacklash · 29/03/2022 14:26

I think it sounds more polite than toilet.

I do find this quite revealing in the context of denying biological reality.

girlmom21 · 29/03/2022 14:26

@MargaritaPie

www.barbican.org.uk/your-visit/general-info/toilets

Took me seconds to find out that yes they do have women's toilets.

I find it very hard to believe that staff would laugh in her fact for asking where the women's toilets were, but if it happened I hope she made a formal complaint.

But in that link it also says that, apart from in the hall/by the hall, the toilets are in the same places which can't be true because we've seen pictures that say otherwise.

The issue isn't whether womens toilets exist. Are they visible and accessible?

For the lady in question, the answer was no.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/03/2022 14:24

it's not technically a bathroom without washing facilities

Yes, that's right.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/03/2022 14:24

Took me seconds to find out that yes they do have women's toilets

Yes but their definition of women includes men, so men get to piss anywhere they like and women still get no penis free toilets.

MargaritaPie · 29/03/2022 14:21

@Whatalovelydaffodil

That doesn't sound good, but can we please stop calling toilets "bathrooms"!

I sometimes do this I'm afraid. I know it's not technically a bathroom without washing facilities but I think it sounds more polite than toilet.

MargaritaPie · 29/03/2022 14:17

www.barbican.org.uk/your-visit/general-info/toilets

Took me seconds to find out that yes they do have women's toilets.

I find it very hard to believe that staff would laugh in her fact for asking where the women's toilets were, but if it happened I hope she made a formal complaint.