To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

Hey, welcome girlmom21!

it's a battle to ensure that females have the right to male free spaces everywhere for their safety, privacy and dignity without question or judgement and anyone who believes that females do not deserve that most simple and basic consideration is a misogynist.

Absolutely. And that leads to two very interesting questions:

• WHY do male people not want female people to have this? Well because it's bloody inconvenient for the males who want to make use of those females in those spaces for their own personal agendas

• WHY is it that male people have this fixed belief that all spaces belong to them, that they're the management committee of the human race and they will decide what in their supreme wisdom they might allow females to need and to have?

The whole thing is male supremacism. If you want to frame it as TQ+ 'rights' can only be achieved by destroying female rights and subordinating them to male people then you're making it a choice of one or the other. And I go for the 51% of the human race who are female.

Since when did 'a service provider was rude to me' become complaint to an MP territory?

Perhaps when there is a much wider context of women being demonised for wanting something that the Equality Act says they are entitled to? Perhaps when said provider is one of many that doesn't provide sufficiently for women?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Great quote! Thank you for posting that. It is a keeper.

How many ways are there to be woman?

How many human females are there, because that's how many ways there are to be a woman

I'm sure the vast readership of a weird obsessive corner of mumsnet is hanging on my every word.

It was your bizarre attitude that got us moved to this corner. I've never been on this board before in my life. I think you've made this thread much more than it ever needed to be. You misquoted. You called women who've been refused their dignity liars, and the women who support them liars.

Anyone cosying up to right wing ideologues

Given some of the terms you've used here - I do feel need to point out UK conservative party aka the Tories are- by people who have knowledge and understand both countires politics - usually considered slightly to the left of the US democtratic party.

This website poster's is usually considered to be slightly left of the UK population as a whole.

As well as slight differences in words - like bathroom not meaning toilet here - it's very different poltically.

Since Gender Crits thought theirs was the only way to be a woman, perhaps, and that the world revolves around their weird obsessions.

🤣🤣🤣

I'm sure the vast readership of a weird obsessive corner of mumsnet is hanging on my every word.

To be fair, the 'vast readership' is usually directed here from people slagging off MN on twitter. Many of us got told to 'educate' ourselves. So we did. Using the archive bank of a huge number of links to studies, papers, reports, statistics.

I suggest any new readers who do want to a place to start, the Break it down for me? thread is a good place.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

It will be a better option than relying on OP very prejudiced view of what they think people who OP has labelled 'Gender Critical' believe. As usual, it is usually a contorted mess fuelled by their own political motivations.

You lot aren't feminists.

Anyone cosying up to right wing ideologues to win some battle on toilets while those ideologues continue to push an economic and political model that has continued to exacerbate poverty, precarious employment, decaying communities and dalays or failures in vital and time sensitive public services (all of which impact women disproportionately) is not a feminist.

Well you sure as shit ain't a feminist. Feminism is for and about females, not males however they feel about themselves.

It's not a battle on toilets it's a battle to ensure that females have the right to male free spaces everywhere for their safety, privacy and dignity without question or judgement and anyone who believes that females do not deserve that most simple and basic consideration is a misogynist.

Failure to supply that most simple and basic of requests actively excludes some of the most vulnerable and marginalised women in society, if you are happy with that then you are a misogynist.

If it is trans hostile to want that most simple and basic of considerations then it is proof positive that the trans rights agenda is in direct opposition to women and women's rights and that is misogynist.

I'm enjoying the 'female people wanting equality of rights are just nutjobs with weird obsession' bit

Misogyny on crack alllllllll the way.

I'm seeing gender clits myself. Damn dyslexia.

They're something so familiar about those power structures and assumptions but somehow I just can't recall how to identify it.

Vaclav Havel, 1978 has some prescient observations about mantras and the unthinking adoption of an ideology and the true cost of the absolution that it confers. (This also has overlaps with Arendt's Origins of Totalitarianism and the role of isolation/outgrouping/ and the creation of mistrust and loneliness as important precursors.)

In an era when metaphysical and existential certainties are in a state of crisis, when people are being uprooted and alienated and are losing their sense of what this world means, this ideology inevitably has a certain hypnotic charm. To wandering humankind it offers an immediately available home: all one has to do is accept it, and suddenly everything becomes clear once more, life takes on new meaning, and all mysteries, unanswered questions, anxiety, and loneliness vanish. Of course, one pays dearly for this low-rent home: the price is abdication of one’ s own reason, conscience, and responsibility, for an essential aspect of this ideology is the consignment of reason and conscience to a higher authority.

hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23

Oh.... and we are now 'Gender Crits' .... is that like critters... are we animals now too?

You lot aren't feminists.

OH NOOO!!!! we are not feminists now!

Anyone cosying up to right wing ideologues to win some battle on toilets while those ideologues continue to push an economic and political model that has continued to exacerbate poverty, precarious employment, decaying communities and dalays or failures in vital and time sensitive public services (all of which impact women disproportionately) is not a feminist.

And with this.... you are getting seriously repetitive. And it is not convincing now as it was not convincing the first numerous times.

Is this seriously all you have?

oooooh.... echo chamber!!!! Can we call bingo yet?

Meanwhile, when I asked for my burger without cheese recently, it came with cheese anyway and the server scoffed at me when I asked for a new one. I was going to complain to the manager but I now see i should be complaining to my MP. Because that is totally normal behaviour...

And the minimisation tactic that is also come out again.

So, a woman who was laughed at for asking for directions to a single sex spaces is worthy of such derision.

There is absolutely no empathy shown here. No acknowledgement that females suffer a great many issues with their bladder control and menstruation issues that require urgency and that having those facilities is vital for their participation in the community.

NO..... OP brings up burgers as if it is a wonderful analogy.

And it is. For someone who has shown a keen derision, almost hatred of women who don't agree with them. The lack of proportionality in the analogy is really quite clear.

Keep them coming OP!

You do know that we may get even more readers here. And they are highly interested in your posts as they are really a great demonstration of the lack of ability to argue the point and to resort to continuous ad hom attacks, cognitive distortions and other manipulations.

Thank you!

*If you lot could only see how profoundly irrelevant you are to most people who do not spend their time obsessing about toilets, you might stop imagining that anyone will care about your little boycott."

In my experience, it's transactivists who are obsessed with toilets. They bang on about them endlessly. Generally, feminists are more interested in campaigning about single-sex spaces in changing rooms, prisons, rape crisis centres and hospital wards. Of course, trans activists don't mention these very much because they know how bad it makes them look. The Staniland question makes them particularly furious. If you want to see a TRA have a hissy fit, ask them: "Do you believe that male-sexed people should have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with women and girls?" Then stand back and watch as those toys come flying out of the pram!

Oh well. Now we have 'witch hunts'? Aren't we the witches? Do we HUNT now too?

very venue that you deem to be insufficiently hostile to trans people.

And we hunt.... squirrels!!! Look there is one???

Just to remind everyone of the tweet under discussion:

“I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

in case we go off hunting squirrels.

And we are now 'you lot'..... yes.... we have had that dehumanisation levelled at us before. It is nothing new.

Now this is also another tactic used by the extreme activists. It is another cognitive distortion. That of catastrophising. The inference being that women wanting female single sex toilets are hostile to trans people.

Does that apply in reverse? Are trans people insisting that only mixed sex toilets are on offer doing it to be hostile to females who need those spaces?

But anyway, the tactic of demonising and monstering women who disagree continues.

OP is very clear about their prejudice and continues to misrepresent our position.

I'd quite welcome the safe knowledge that someone I got chatting to in the queue of a bar at the theatre isn't a secret transphobe.

What a gem of a statement!

Rather than because making up a cock and bull story to an MP with a history of lying is an easier way to push an agenda

You really are determined to push your agenda against this woman and the MP aren't you?

Based on living in the factual world and talking to people and knowing people, and not living in some weird anti-trans echo chamber.

What anti trans echo chamber? if you mean here then you may wish adjust your dress, your bias is showing.

Continued derogation of "us lot" might end up in someone deciding that reporting and deletions can work both ways!