Page 26 | To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 28/03/2022 10:52

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Perhaps they wanted to borrow a loofah?

DomesticatedZombie · 28/03/2022 10:52

@SalsaLove

Bathroom sounds nicer than toilet.

But if there's no bath in the room it's inaccurate FAKE NEWS.

DomesticatedZombie · 28/03/2022 10:50

@Whatalovelydaffodil

That doesn't sound good, but can we please stop calling toilets "bathrooms"!

Unless this was another LIE and there are actually GIANT BATHS by the urinals.

luckylavender · 28/03/2022 10:50

[quote TeaKlaxon]Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw[/quote]
Not just her. Loads of Right wing commentators did the same. Lies are common currency now.

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TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:49

@EvilGoldfish

On what planet do people regularly confuse butch lesbians with transwomen/men?

That’s only possible if someone has no eyes, or ears.

I really don’t understand this modern push that actually, we can’t tell men apart from women. It’s as clear as the difference between night and day, no matter how that person is dressed/styled. Maybe in a carefully staged photo, certainly not in real life where the person is talking/moving.

It’s complete and utter hogwash.

So the lesbians who say you're wrong are just lying about their experiences, are they?

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Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:48

@heathspeedwell

I've been going to gay pubs and clubs since I was 15, and I'm very fortunate to know a lot of women who are bi or lesbian. I have never met a single woman who has been mistaken for a man in a toilet, but I have always been able to spot a transwoman from 50 paces away. I've met a transwoman who spent thousands on facial surgery and it was still instantly clear that they were male.

Male people have larger hands and feet than women. They have a completely different shoulder to hip ratio. Even the most petite male person will still have different hip bones to women, so the way they walk is instantly recognisable as a male gait.

I don't know who is supposed to benefit from perpetuating this daft myth that women can be mistaken for transwomen.

Why are you ignoring those lesbians who have an experience different to those people you know?

And why do you imagine that every lesbian you have ever met would have told you if they've had a negative experience in a toilet?

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/03/2022 10:48

I don't know who is supposed to benefit from perpetuating this daft myth that women can be mistaken for transwomen.

I think it's fairly clear who, to be honest.

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TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:47

@Natfemale

But it means precisely, exactly that. There are toilets which are labelled as being for men ( urinals?) . There are toilets labelled for the use of both sexes ( or none I suppose if you are non binary). There are no toilets labelled for women. So there are no women’s toilets. The gender specific ones are for MEN.

I’m afraid that it is not these (we ) people who are misspeaking the truth.

What?

The Barbican has toilets for women, toilets for men, toilets which are gender neutral, and toilets for people with disabilities.

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heathspeedwell · 28/03/2022 10:47

I've been going to gay pubs and clubs since I was 15, and I'm very fortunate to know a lot of women who are bi or lesbian. I have never met a single woman who has been mistaken for a man in a toilet, but I have always been able to spot a transwoman from 50 paces away. I've met a transwoman who spent thousands on facial surgery and it was still instantly clear that they were male.

Male people have larger hands and feet than women. They have a completely different shoulder to hip ratio. Even the most petite male person will still have different hip bones to women, so the way they walk is instantly recognisable as a male gait.

I don't know who is supposed to benefit from perpetuating this daft myth that women can be mistaken for transwomen.

EvilGoldfish · 28/03/2022 10:46

On what planet do people regularly confuse butch lesbians with transwomen/men?

That’s only possible if someone has no eyes, or ears.

I really don’t understand this modern push that actually, we can’t tell men apart from women. It’s as clear as the difference between night and day, no matter how that person is dressed/styled. Maybe in a carefully staged photo, certainly not in real life where the person is talking/moving.

It’s complete and utter hogwash.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/03/2022 10:46

Perhaps they wanted to borrow a loofah?

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:46

[quote girlmom21]@TeaKlaxon but if you saw womens toilets and gender neutral toilets you'd assume there were no mens toilets. It's not the same as them being completely separate.

If there are just mens or just womens, you know there'll be other toilets elsewhere.

If there are just gender neutral toilets, you assume there are only gender neutral toilets.
[/quote]
No, I wouldn't assume that.

Unless I'd been primed to believe that institutions are out there wholesale removing womens facilities and 'erasing women' - maybe if I'd fallen for that nonesense then I might assume such a counterintuitive thing.

But aside from being brainwashed (including by people like Lucy Allen furthering this nonsense), if I saw gents and gender neutral bathrooms in a venue as large as the Barbican, I would just assume the women's bathroom is somewhere else. That is by far the more reasonable assumption.

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Whatalovelydaffodil · 28/03/2022 10:44

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I'm not surprised they were being challenged if they were in a bathroom. I'd challenge anyone I found in our bathroom.

I agree. And I don't think a lot if people go to the Barbican for a bath or shower either.

Natfemale · 28/03/2022 10:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:43

@Hoppinggreen

I don’t ignore evidence and I don’t ignore my own lived experience and that of many women I personally know I do ignore biased articles in skewed publications with a very clear agenda, with or without your permission

OK.

So we should just ignore lesbians like Eloise Stonborough because her words are printed in a magazine for queer women and NB people.

It's funny how much of the GC narrative is all about listening to the concerns of women, but when a woman sets out her own experience that they disagree with, it is dismissed entirely.

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girlmom21 · 28/03/2022 10:42

@TeaKlaxon but if you saw womens toilets and gender neutral toilets you'd assume there were no mens toilets. It's not the same as them being completely separate.

If there are just mens or just womens, you know there'll be other toilets elsewhere.

If there are just gender neutral toilets, you assume there are only gender neutral toilets.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:42

@raspberrymuffin

Coming back to add that Lucy Allen has form for misinformation - most notably tweeting the debunked rubbish about Keir Starmer failing to prosecute grooming gangs, and also lots of stuff about how covid isn't a big deal. She's faked a death threat, bullied her own staff and was suspended from a previous job for plagiarism. This isn't someone who has earned the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for flagging this.

Yes, seemingly quite a dishonest (or, being generous) careless person.

But it's interesting to see all the posters on here falling over themselves to defend her, even though they can't actually explain in what way the implications of her tweet are correct.

All they've got is 'but she only says she was told X, so as long as she was told X it;s not technically a lie...'

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daimbarsatemydogsbone · 28/03/2022 10:40

I'm not surprised they were being challenged if they were in a bathroom. I'd challenge anyone I found in our bathroom.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:40

@girlmom21

Being incorrect doesn't necessarily equal lying. Having male toilets and gender neutral toilets but no female toilets in one specific area of a building is strange and, unless the direction of the female toilets is highlighted in the area where those toilets are, it's logical to assume they don't exist.

If you were in a bar and someone stood in front of the gender neutral toilets asking where the ladies was you'd roll your eyes because you'd assume they were trying to make a point.

It's not logical to assume they don't exist. The Barbican is a huge space. There are parts of the building that have women's bathrooms but the mens bathrooms are somewhere else certainly out of eyeline (e.g. from memory, on at least one floor of the main auditorium area, if you go out one side of the balcony, there is a women's bathroom, but if you go out the other side there is a men's bathroom.

I believe there is a disabled loo on both sides as well.

If you go out the door with the women's bathroom, you can't immediately see the men's bathrooms (and vice versa). It's not reasonable to deduce from that they they don't exist.

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Jillyfernilly · 28/03/2022 10:39

I go a lot to the Barbican

The toilet situtation has been fucking me off for a while.

In cinema 1 they converted what used to be the ladies into "gender neutral" toilets. There are I think only 2 or 3 cubicles.

The gents has either remained as gents or is labelled as gender neutral with a urinal... regardless it doesn't feel like my loo options have been massively expanded but they have for those who identify as male.

Anyway, it's had a massive impact on the queue for the loo in that area for women.

The toilets around the theatre are less of an issue and I've not been into cinema 2/3 post covid so can't remember what they are like.

Hoppinggreen · 28/03/2022 10:39

I don’t ignore evidence and I don’t ignore my own lived experience and that of many women I personally know
I do ignore biased articles in skewed publications with a very clear agenda, with or without your permission

raspberrymuffin · 28/03/2022 10:38

Coming back to add that Lucy Allen has form for misinformation - most notably tweeting the debunked rubbish about Keir Starmer failing to prosecute grooming gangs, and also lots of stuff about how covid isn't a big deal. She's faked a death threat, bullied her own staff and was suspended from a previous job for plagiarism. This isn't someone who has earned the benefit of the doubt.

Original poster

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:36

@Hoppinggreen

So 1 person (with an agenda) claims something happens despite many people on here saying they have never seen it and now we are all supposed to believe it’s an issue? I attended an event a couple of years ago and due to the kind of event it was there were quite a few butch presenting lesbians and also quite a few Transwomen. There was no way you could have mistaken one group for the other.

Except there's also lots of evidence of people speaking out about their experience being challenged in bathrooms.

You're obviously free to ignore that if you wish.

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girlmom21 · 28/03/2022 10:34

@Hoppinggreen

So 1 person (with an agenda) claims something happens despite many people on here saying they have never seen it and now we are all supposed to believe it’s an issue? I attended an event a couple of years ago and due to the kind of event it was there were quite a few butch presenting lesbians and also quite a few Transwomen. There was no way you could have mistaken one group for the other.

Yeah but there's an article in Diva Mag so it must be true

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TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 10:34

@DingDongDenny

So what - you think the various lesbians who have told us about their experiences being challenged in womens bathrooms

You say 'told us' TeaKlaxon - who are you representing here?

Representing no one but myself.

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