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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

709 replies

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 09:33

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Clymene · 28/03/2022 12:23

So what are the facts?

Fact 1: Women are poorly served by public toilet provision because we typically take longer and are typically afforded the same amount of space which means many more men can use them than women in an equivalent space (because men can use urinals. Yes I know this is obvious).

Fact 2: the Barbican has rebranded some of its women's toilets to be gender neutral, thereby reducing the provision of women's toilets further still.

I can't see how even @TeaKlaxon can argue with that.

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 12:21

@AlisonDonut

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

I thought a female person had asked a staff member so why would she ask a staff member if they are so easy to find?

Do you work there, is that it?

Well given that this person who contacted Lucy Allen:

(a) felt the need to make a political point to the person working in the Barbican (why would the person she asked care why she wanted to know where the womens toilet was unless she wanted to make a point); and

(b) felt the need to contact an MP about someone allegedly being a bit rude in a theatre - and not even the MP where the theatre is located, but an MP with a history of making stuff up,

I would not assume that there was any actual difficulty in finding the womens toilets. The Barbican is very well sign posted.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 12:18

Thanks Clymene . Not sure where I am supposed to go. A series of gender neutral cubicles next to each mean that I am likely to be in a space while vulnerable next to someone with their dick out. I want to go to a women only space.

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 12:17

@AlisonDonut

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Have you popped there this morning to check?

I guess the issue is that they have changed some of the female toilets to mixed sex [possibly since your last visit unless you work there in which case you should express your interest in this issue], and labelled them 'gender neutral' and the question is - how many females ones are left and are they easily accessible.

This morning, no.

That was certainly the case at my last visit. There are a lot of womens bathrooms in the Barbican complex. My understanding is only one of them have been converted to gender neutral. I can't remember if that had happened on my last visit or not, but even if new, if it is just one then there are still a lot of womens bathrooms about.

OP posts:
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 28/03/2022 12:16

The OP is the one spreading misinformation, claiming the MP's tweet stated there were no womens toilets at the barbican. The tweet says nothing of the sort. The tweet says that the woman who asked about the women's toilets was laughed at by staff, doesn't say anything about whether there were or weren't women's toilets.

AlisonDonut · 28/03/2022 12:15

@maddening

Quite frankly the toilet argument is the thin end of the wedge, you won't find TRAs like the op going gung ho into conversations about rape crisis and medicalisation of children under the gender ideology banner as it is not as easy to dismiss such concerns.

I agree it is not possible to police, and transsexuals have been using with no problems for years, but the trans train today is very different- eg you have grown men filming themselves walking in women's toilets dressed as a woman, by crossing the boundaries in such a manner you cause lines to be drawn.

No problems. Aye right.

Unless you are the 10 year old assaulted by the trans woman Katie Dolatowski.

www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883

Clymene · 28/03/2022 12:12

@bellinisurge

I don't know what the third one is at the back but a gender neutral toilet is , by definition, not a sex-specific one. Why not change the men's to gender neutral if allegedly it's not an issue.
Sorry, it's my crappy photo. Zoomed in - it's the men's
To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?
To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?
334bu · 28/03/2022 12:10

but not really anything to do with the OP, which is the blatant misinformation by Lucy Allen.

So where are the women's toilets? Are they beside all the others? Are they easy to find? How many are there?

SamphiretheStickerist · 28/03/2022 12:10

Your problem is that those instances are true.

The most accessible women's loos have been rebranded. The ones nearest the main entrances, transport connections, on the ground floor. The women's loos no longer exist there. Women are being disadvantaged in droves in order to satisfy those who shout "anti trans" cobblers at every opportunity.

When women point out a blindingly obvious inequity it behoves you, organisations, everyone to stop and think past your own bias.

maddening · 28/03/2022 12:09

Wanking not walking

maddening · 28/03/2022 12:09

Quite frankly the toilet argument is the thin end of the wedge, you won't find TRAs like the op going gung ho into conversations about rape crisis and medicalisation of children under the gender ideology banner as it is not as easy to dismiss such concerns.

I agree it is not possible to police, and transsexuals have been using with no problems for years, but the trans train today is very different- eg you have grown men filming themselves walking in women's toilets dressed as a woman, by crossing the boundaries in such a manner you cause lines to be drawn.

bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 12:09

I don't know what the third one is at the back but a gender neutral toilet is , by definition, not a sex-specific one. Why not change the men's to gender neutral if allegedly it's not an issue.

Clymene · 28/03/2022 12:06

There is nothing to indicate that women's toilets are harder to find.

Except this photo which clearly shows the women's toilets have been converted into gender neutral ones.

To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?
80sMum · 28/03/2022 12:03

@SalsaLove

Bathroom sounds nicer than toilet.
But it is incorrect to call a toilet/lavatory a bathroom!

A "bathroom" is a room with a bath in it: it may or may not also contain a toilet/lavatory.

bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 12:03

If you have to ask a member of staff, it's not easy to find. If that member of staff laughs in your face, they should be fired. AND it says something about the culture of the place that they think it's ok to do this.

AlisonDonut · 28/03/2022 12:00

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

I thought a female person had asked a staff member so why would she ask a staff member if they are so easy to find?

Do you work there, is that it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/03/2022 12:00

That's a good argument for there being more women's toilets

It is, isn't it? And not converting them to mixed sex ones that many women don't want to use.

AlisonDonut · 28/03/2022 11:59

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Have you popped there this morning to check?

I guess the issue is that they have changed some of the female toilets to mixed sex [possibly since your last visit unless you work there in which case you should express your interest in this issue], and labelled them 'gender neutral' and the question is - how many females ones are left and are they easily accessible.

girlmom21 · 28/03/2022 11:59

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

Apart from staff members laughing in womens faces when they ask where the ladies toilets are?

Bet they wouldn't have laughed in a man's face.

bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 11:58

"Someone complaining there isn't a sign in the very specific place they happen to be stood at one particular time is being a bit pathetic IMO."
How very dare someone who is trying to access a toilet in a public place complain.

TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 11:58

@AlisonDonut

What makes you think that 51% of the population have to go to a bit more effort.

Well, in toilets generally, there are less female ones so it is par for the course.

I've never been anywhere where they were queuing out the door of the mens' whilst the ladies' was free flowing so to speak. Ever.

That's a different issue though.

I was referring to finding a toilet and the signposting involved. There is nothing to indicate it is harder for women to find a toilet than men.

Of course you are right that there tend to be queues for womens toilets and not for mens at show interval times. That's a good argument for there being more women's toilets - but not really anything to do with the OP, which is the blatant misinformation by Lucy Allen.

OP posts:
FacebookPhotos · 28/03/2022 11:58

OP, you are just plain wrong here. The tweet doesn't say there are no women's toilets so it doesn't really matter if there are or not (in terms of whether the MP is spreading misinformation). The tweet says that a person was laughed at for asking where the women's toilets were. None of us can say whether that actually happened, but I'm not sure why you find it difficult to believe.

I actually have seen UK toilets being "policed" - in clubs when I was younger, where many times women challenged men who attempted to follow a young woman into the women's toilets.

DdraigGoch · 28/03/2022 11:56

@HoveringDonkeyofKnock

I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral

That’s a bit pathetic. What are disabled people supposed to do, disabled toilets are usually gender neutral.

I don’t hear disabled people saying excuse me Jan but I’m a woman not a gender neutral.

Disabled toilets are self-contained rooms for the use of one person at a time. They do not come with a row of urinals like the "gender neutral" toilets pictured up thread.
TeaKlaxon · 28/03/2022 11:56

@Pluvia

Not sure what this has to do with the topic of the thread, which is Lucy Allen's false claim (or implication...) that the Barbican doesn't have women's bathrooms

Dodging my questions? Now there's a surprise...

As several women have pointed out, there don't seem to be any specifically labelled Women's loos (not bathrooms) at the Barbican. Or if they are they are so hidden away that even the staff there aren't sure where they are.

That is just not true.

There are women's toilets at the Barbican, and they are not hidden. In fact from memory there are women's toilets on pretty much every floor. Certainly that is the case in and around the main auditorium, which is the part of the Barbican I am most familiar with.

Anyone claiming that there aren't any women's toilets, or that they are in some way hidden away, are lying.

OP posts:
NewPanDrawer · 28/03/2022 11:54

@334bu

So how many female toilets are there in the Barbican ? Are they hidden away or readily accessible? Are they signposted or not?
I've not done an actual survey on my visits, but I've never had a problem, there are quite a lot of toilets there. I think the issue is being greatly overstated for certain reasons (and the tweet in the original post seems to be part of that).

For toilet errrm "enthusiasts" (and Mumsnet seems to attract them) apparently it's all being redone soon anyway:
www.procurement.co.uk/tender_details/7d2092b0-fead-439b-a3b4-2479d8bddbb5