To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

? I am a Barbican member. Fair point that we could do with more toilets per se, but there are plenty around compared to most arts venues. Worth noting that you can use the toilets in the restaurants as well as these are public.

You silly, silly woman!

[ just in case!!!]

Can we get away from this nonsense of calling toilets bathrooms? Never poo in the bath!

Yet there seems to be no evidence of either the hunt for trans people or the discrimination against lesbians and you have agreed that the lesbian is an unnecessary label. And actually gender none conforming women may look totally female and be none conforming in many other ways. Sloppy use of language or sloppy stereotypes

Bored now

What's weird is that the Barbican's floor plan online shows loos with the old fashioned men and women and disabled symbols. Implying they have no gender neutral. Very odd. Why aren't they displaying what they truly have proudly?

Gender neutral doesn't have to mean mixed sex

It coiukd equally mean single sex any gender surely?

Oh, and because I've been to the Barbican and its not nearly as difficult as this person seems to think to find a women's bathroom, which leads me to conclude they are being disingenuous.

So because you've never got lost there, you're going to completely ignore the testimony of the many posters on this thread that they did get lost and say that it never happens?

A woman goes up to the row of three toilet doors. The signs (in order, as per the photograph) are "gender neutral", "disabled", and "men's". She looks around and thinks "all the other ones are here, so where are the women's? I'll ask someone"

She finds an usher and asks "where are the women's toilets? I can't use gender-neutral ones." The usher laughs at this.

The obvious conclusion from the usher's reaction is that asking for the women's toilets is a silly question. On the one hand that could be because the location was obvious (in which case the usher would then give directions), on the other hand it could be that women's toilets are so last year. It would not be unreasonable to then assume that there were none.

I think the pertinent question re the butch lesbian thing is: Why, when discussing whether women should be allowed to have single sex spaces, would any lesbian, or any other woman for that matter, bring up the fact that they are challenged due to their masculine presentation when using women only toilets? They are women, so should be welcome in female only spaces by default, so it’s not relevant in any way shape or form to the topic under discussion.“What butch lesbians have to do with the presence or absence of female only toilets in any given venue I don’t know, other than The fact that if no female only toilets are available, those masculine presenting women don’t have any female only toilets to use either.

The fact is that their is a certain group of people who like to make out that masculine presenting women are being excluded because they would like people to think masculine presenting women are like men, to reinforce the fact that they think women should not be allowed spaces that don’t include men, because if you exclude men, by there logic, then you are also excluding masculine presenting women, because in their minds masculine presenting women are like men, or at least not like women.

@TeaKlaxon there are very few posters here who agree with you. They are also normal, every day people.

But you're not referring to the posters who agree with you when you're telling people they're wrong. You're referring to a woman who looks like a woman who claims that she gets regular abuse in women's toilets who has no skin in the game on this thread.

When I was last there, they had changed the men's and the women's to both be gender neutral. It was busy and men were all going into the old men's and women into the old women's. Except for the men who inadvertently went to the women because they hadn't cottoned on to what was happening. They then came out pretty quickly once they realised it was actually a woman's toilet. No women went into the old men's that I saw, I presume because they didn't want an eyeful at the urinals. I used the old women's as I made a calculated risk assessment that it was sorting itself into men's and women's anyway and it was very busy. Safety in numbers. But I have not and would not go back again. It was not clear to me that there were women's toilet anywhere. If there were, they should have clearly been signposted from where I was as I was not comfortable using the mixed sex toilets.

A row of single cubicles leading directly off the corridor, each containing a sink, would solve this, and end the arguments. No one could possibly be at risk this way.

Get rid of urinals altogether as the space can be better used for everyone’s benefit, not just the benefit of some. Also evidence is the urinal area is not safe for young boys or gender non conforming males.

Job done.

Yes, men will have to learn not to wee on the seats or be disgusting but that can surely be achieved?

Is that true? Why should lesbians be more likely to be gender none Conforming ?

Does being gender none conforming affect how you look? Your physique ?

But good job deciding Eloise Stonborough is a liar based on how she looks.

She said she's ostracised because of her looks so of course I'm going to judge her based on her looks. It's literally what she claims to be an issue.

What 'actual, normal, everyday' people.

Every single person here who doesn't share your opinion...

You know but you haven't actually tried ?

That's a great skill - knowing things without evidence. Perhaps you couple apply that skill to other problems - so you know how to stop the war on Ukraine for example ?