Hypothetical perfect sex change

You seem to be simultaneously claiming that we don't believe gender exists, and that we believe there's no difference between gender and sex. Which is it?

For the record, gender critical people generally think that gender is not some kind of inner identity or inherent sense of self, but merely a set of outdated, regressive sex-based stereotypes about how men and women should dress and behave and the roles they should occupy in society. So yes, that's very different from sex, which is immutable.

Your hypothetical example is basically saying 'If a human being could literally change sex, would they have changed sex?'. Well... yes, obviously. That's like saying 'If a pen were transformed into a cushion, would it be a cushion'. The answer is inherent in the framing of the question.

However, it's totally irrelevant because it won't ever be real. Plus there would probably still be concerns. Even a total magical sex transformation wouldn't automatically get rid of the learned behaviours, motivations and expectations that a person might have as a result of living for decades in their original sex, due to how society treats and regards people of that sex.

"To be clear this sex change would hypothetically naturally dissolve breasts and naturally create a penis as well as ALL other physical changes."

Magic gender and sex change fantasies are what got us to this bullshit mess in the first place.

But whilst you are here I want to ask YOU some questions. These are non magical questions that affect people in the real world.

Do you believe the upsurge in autistic girls identifying as non binary or trans has anything to do with social influence? Many of these girls who are saying they are trans also have mental health issues going on like self harm or anorexia. What safeguarding can there be so these girls aren't getting healthy breast tissue amputated? To repeat - how can we ensure the safety of children with special needs to make sure that they aren't being coerced into believing they can magically change sex?

A woman was raped in an NHS hospital by a transwoman. She was told no rape happened. The rape was caught on CCTV. The NHS staff denied a man was on the ward. As if by magic, the man with a penis who raped the woman was made into a figment of her imagination. What do you think this means for womens safety in hospitals? Are the NHS to be trusted? Apparently this isn't the only case!

Happy to keep asking you questions so don't leave too quickly will you?

Would this magical sex change also undo all the prior female socialisation?
I'd also like to know if this would be the case in this hypothetical situation.

If there is ever the ability to rewrite someone's entire chromosomal code to get them to change sex, it had better deal with some of those unfair illnesses which only attach to certain individuals who happen to be assigned to a particular sex at birth (how do they know?!)

It could be a miraculous cure for Duchennes.

As I believe Sex and Gender are different and you do not.
If you'd read the many different discussions on this subject here, you'd know that the prevailing opinion on this board is that sex and gender are very much different and, in fact, that underpins a lot of the arguments.
I've been a regular on the Mumsnet Feminism boards for over a decade and I don't think I've ever seen someone say that.
I'm not sure where you get your information about MN from, but you are misinformed.

there seem to be lots of threads overnight with a whiff of students visiting the 'radicalised' with fake posts to write their gender studies thesis

What about catgender? Maybe in the future humans could design tech to allow these folk to grow tails. Or ears, the ears could be cute!

Instead of arguing with people on the internet by telling them what they think, read this discussion between two people

letter.wiki/conversation/1232

So far you've told us:

I believe Sex and Gender are different and you do not.

You don't believe gender is real and that Man, Women can only be determined by sex

Which is it? Do you believe that we all think gender and sex is the same or that we don't think gender is real?

Why have you come here to tell us what we think? Wouldn't it be more useful to tell us what you think and we'll tell you what we think? Since these two contradictory statements show that you don't have a clue about what people on here think.

What do you think 'gender' is and is it the same as 'gender identity'?

You implied we thought sex = gender.

Nah, no. There are two sexes in mammals (count 'em, two), whereas there are well over 50 different gender identities.

So obviously not the same thing. The confusing part is how trans activists think that almost all of those genders should be entitled to use the areas reserved for persons of the female sex.

No, you said we don’t believe gender is real.

So you define gender as gender identity? That may be where we disagree.

What if the sun one day actually transformed into the wheel of a chariot? Energy and mass all compensated for. The transformation would generate the chariot and any other necessary parts. Chariots and suns are real and related as they share shape.

Seeing as you take yourself too seriously, I'll help: I really don't care what the sun decides to morph into in my imagination or in the future. Right now it's a sun and I'm not going to deny that reality just because it may one day, which may never come, become a wheel.

Who are you talking to @pop91 when you say 'as I believe sex & gender are different but you do not' - Zapx or all of us? Because if it's to us all you are really showing your hand by telling us what we think. Actually, the same for if it's only Zapx. You know what we really think, never mind the reality of what you can read on this board if you chose to pay any attention to it, you know best. As others have said, the general view is that sex & gender are different and most of us don't have any time for the mystical belief of 'gender identity'.

I think you're goading so I'm out of here.

Again, you’re wrong. I would politely suggest you stop telling “us” what we believe.

What do you mean by gender being “real”? What does “real” mean in this context, to you?

As I believe Sex and Gender are different and you do not.

I too believe sex and gender are different. I wouldn't like to assume, but how they are different might be where you and I disagree.

@Kanaloa do report back!

@Zapx

Not yet 😂 it does look like exactly my kind of rubbish. It’s called The Assignment and basically the hitman then sets out to kill the people who gave him the sex change.

As I believe Sex and Gender are different and you do not.
I’m afraid you’re gravely misinformed on this point. I highly doubt any regular gender critical posters on this board believe sex and gender to be the same thing. However we may have a different opinion than you on what gender is. What do you think sex and gender are?

Because the question doesn’t make any sense and is irrelevant to any real life situation