Hypothetical perfect sex change

Too much perhapsing.

If a hypothetical person already felt they knew all the opinions of the people they were talking too, why would that hypothetical person bother asking any questions? Would it not be better for that hypothetical person to perhaps listen to what other people are saying instead of telling them that they already know what they believe?

Especially as I think that hypothetical person might look a little silly if they then show that actually, they have no fucking clue what the people they are talking to believe by making ridiculous statements about them believing the opposite to what they actually do.

OP, you seem confused as to what our views on gender are - perhaps we have different definitions of what gender is. Perhaps you could tell us what you mean by gender. If we know your definition then perhaps we could help you with your confusion as to what we believe.

I like this game. Can the twitter community vote on whether I can choose to opt out of, menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, the menopause, low pay and being patronised too?

And if everywoman could, would you like us to join - no doubt overcrowded - men’s spaces.

Interesting question and I see what you're getting at. Thank you.

So reading your question I have come to think that I believe sex and gender interact with each other through life. I dont think theyre the same thing but I have thought for some time that in daily life as opposed to theory, it is quite difficult to separate them.

So there's no doubt that I would believe your hypothetical sex changed person to be a man, both in meeting them and in theory. I would also expect to be surprised by gendered behaviour that I would not normally expect from a man, because that person grew up female. The transmen I know ( i only know 3 and they are all very young) do still have a lot of behaviours I associate with women and I'd say that is because they grew up with a particular gender.

Not sure where that puts me. But as I say, interesting question.

Oh, if we're getting on, I should ruin it by saying if you think social contagion plays no role in the rise in children wishing to transition, I think you're wilfully blind. But I'd also agree that a lot of the 'social contagion' bunch are essentially talking about it a lot to annoy their parents and dot do much but flip pronouns.

I got up due to menstrual issues, not mental issues!

Team Ascended here. But however much fun this little thought experiment may have been, it has absolutely no bearing on anything in the real world, and as a thread would be better placed on a creative writing forum, rather than a feminism board.

I had to get up for times last night due to mental issues. Would I choose to be stronger, taller, have a faster metabolism and be period free? Of course I would. I’m also sexually attracted to men, of whom there’d be loads, which would be great. I genuinely think you’d have to traffic women in for men’s sexual needs - more than we do already - and that we would end up with a horrendous sci-fi dystopia.
In fact, in that dystopia, I bet we get cries of transwomen are not women, as those changing sex to be women mostly wanted only the boobs and clothes, rather than the subjugation and lower social status.

It's Sunday morning, when I woke up my iPhone told me it was 6:30, but I knew it was really 5:30. I wish it had told me it was1972, not 2022.

It was a better/happier time.

I played your game. Do I win a cookie?

Then there would be another group of people who choose to have their personalities uploaded to the internet, or into robots. These new creatures, who would call themselves The Ascended, would wage war to wipe out humanity. They would be successful , end climate change in the process and the world would live happily ever after without humans of either sex.

Or, if the process were more expensive, we’d have a situation we here western people all became male, and women from poor countries were traded for wives. In this dystopia as well, rich people would choose to change their skin colour to white, and we would end with a world in which being white and male were ever more important for success.

If people could change sex at will, and it was cheap and risk free, then there would be very few women. There would be no problem with transwomen in women’s sport as their bodies would be female. There would be no problem with transwomen in women’s prisons as they would be female. There would be no problem with the medicalisation of children as the process would be safe, painless and reversible. Female socialisation might not even be a thing any more. The male really would be the default human, because who in their right mind would choose to be female, except perhaps transwomen (who would now just be called women). Everyone would be totally happy until humans started to go extinct from a lack of women.

A longstanding friend (with no background in science) told me (substantial background in science) it may be possible in future for humans to change sex because genetics. I told him it was never going to happen as there are no drivers for humans to change sex, and he suggested "you never know" although I bloody well do.

The OP reminds me of that heated conversation, goady for the sake of it and looking for some cackhanded way to deny the fact of human sexual dimorphism.

Ok, I’ll bite.

If a medical procedure could take a woman, change every cell, bone structure, organ size, musculature, dissolve some organs, grow other organs, so that physically and biologically that woman became indistinguishable from a man?

Then that person would biologically be a man.

However they still would not have been raised as a boy, socialised as a boy, treated as a boy/young man by the wider world, had the experiences of a boy who enters puberty, etc etc.

They would never be the same as a man who was born a man and raised as a man, and they should never try to tell men what “being a man” involves or is like or that all other men must immediately and unquestioningly accept them into their male spaces, groups designed specifically to support men, male friendship groups etc.

Compelled speech or requiring people to pretend that this person was always a man would also still be wrong.

So they’d be a biological man, for day to day purposes could live life “as a man” without most people noticing/caring that they have a different background.

But they still couldn’t and shouldn’t get away with all the shit that the TRAs are advocating for.

Also please stop imagining that you understand what the phrase “gender critical” means, you clearly don’t.