Hypothetical perfect sex change

you make it sound like being female isn't what you want? like you want to escape being female?

I'd like the 20% extra pay.

I'd like not being told, "cheer up, hon, it's not that bad".

I'd like to be able to do pushups. And run faster.

I could have done without being raped.

Periods can do one, too.

So, yeah, if 12 year old me could have taken the pill, and done the whole chrysalis dissolve thing and come out with a shiney new dick, better career prospects, and no sodding periods then she probably would have done.

But that's not the world we live in. Society and socialisation are shaped by the fact we can't change sex. If we could, society would look very different, probably in unexpected ways.

you make it sound like being female isn't what you want? like you want to escape being female?

Personally, I would like to not escape being female, but to escape the gender role (box) that society enforces on me because I am female.

But where my opinion differs from gender ideology is that I don't think the solution is to continue to enforce the boxes but let people change their box. I say get rid of the boxes.

Question OP - do you feel more that you 'identify as a man' or that you 'don't identify as a woman'? I ask this because I've asked it to TW in the past and I would find it interesting to hear your perspective as a TM.

I suppose if in the future it was possible to change someone physically at every level

• chromosomes
• hormone levels
• genitalia
• breast tissue
• reduce bone density
• reduce heart size
• reduce lung capacity
• widen pelvis and change centre of balance

Then we could say that that person was now physically the other sex. There would still be differences from being raised as a boy or girl that affect socialisation and behaviours. Girls are bombarded with messages to 'be kind' and put themselves last, to be quiet and considerate, whereas boys are bombarded with messages to be powerful, to take control. Those cannot be dismissed.

you've said a lot about what other people believe OP. what do you believe?

You firmly believe you have a male gender identity I think - have I got that right?

If so, how do you know? what does a male gender identity look like?

Other than the low pay and being patronised would you really want to opt-out of the rest?
Aren't there actually many women who enjoy pregnancy and childbirth (not all or even most but at least some)
I just refuse to believe women hate being female THAT much and none of these reasons played into why I transitioned

Well no one is going to choose to transition for low pay. But this is supposed to be a thought experiment.
So why can’t I identify out of pain, debilitation and illness?
And if there is genuine choice, why not take the option to be stronger and faster?
The lived reality of womanhood isn’t imagined.

@Motorina have just downloaded Ursula Le Guin's 'The Left Hand of Darkness' based on your recommendation.

Great highlighting of the key issues with this thought experiment.

So if we didn't choose this sex change we would be voluntarily opting into female oppression without any justification to demand sexual equality?

Who would bear our children? Only those dumb enough to accept the oppression?

Ok, so this hypothetical procedure doesn't get rid of socialisation - so it's remaking every single cell apart from those in the brain.

How long does this hypothetical procedure take? Is the 'dissolving' an instant thing? I suppose it depends how big you want your new breasts or penis to be.

(In fact, I'm going to bet some hypothetical money that more males would choose bigger breasts for after the procedure but that females wouldn't all be choosing massive cocks.)

Yes, it's doesn't make you any taller or shorter either.
But height is a feature of male cells so that doesn't make sense.

You either change everything, or nothing. It sounds like you are picking and choosing.

I mean, it's your fantasy/dystopian novel, but as an avid reader I need to tell you a world with inconsistent rules isn't believable.

For the record, I think a believable alternative would be that your height would be similar to your parent

I think most women would choose the advantage of male privilege when it made sense to, yes.

For example, most women are unable to travel in India safely without taking quite extreme precautions. We have more difficulty with diving and safari because female bodies are not the default and noone thinks to provide us with somewhere to change sanitary products etc.

I think women would use the default male option more often than not because it would be easier and have many more benefits.

The real question would be would anyone choose to be a woman with all the disadvantages that brings. I suspect not many, if you assume sexuality has no bearing on decisions taken.

What you are essentially asking is: if there was a magic pill that meant you could have a better chance in career, a stronger body, less complications, less mental load put on you, less discrimination, less vulnerable to attack, would you take it?
I assume you are someone not biologically female to have not considered any of these factors?

A few thoughts...

A society where people could change their sex down to their DNA would be radically different from our own. I can see it playing out two ways...

Either the society, like our own, would have one sex which has a real socialisation, career progression, and financial advantage, so everyone would want to choose to be that sex. This would create similar social issues to those we currently have in societies where there is sex-selection abortion, but on a much grander scale. To address this, there would have to be limits on who could change sex, and how. And maybe markers to say 'this one's not a real man' to keep uppity women out of male spaces.

Or, where the burdens of childrearing can fall equally on anyone, then sex-based power differentials could melt away. I can only see that happening if there's an element of choicelessness on the sex change.

If you want to see a thought-experiment played out on the latter, then I would highly recommend Ursula Le Guin's 'The Left Hand of Darkness'. It's one of my very favourite books, and one of its themes is just that.

In either event, it would be a radically different society from our own. So what I, as an individual socialised in a society where I can't change my sex, no matter how much I would want to, would think of individuals who can change their sex at will really isn't the point. The point is how that society would manage when sex is a fluid concept.

I agree it would be fascinating. It would allow us to unpick what is socialisation, what is male-reinforced power structures, and what is the inevitable consequences of a binary sexual biology. And whether there really is a thing called gender identity that exists and persists independent of biological sex. But what I think of it, as a creature who cannot escape my female biology, is irrelevant.

The bit about other peoples right to remember is interesting. Let's say we perfect this perfect sex change, would we allow violent criminals to perfectly transition? Conversely, how would stop the ability to perfectly transition being used to further criminal activities?

Ohh and also would you keep everything else?

So would a tubby, mediocre man who was not a great athlete become a woman who was tubby and non athletic, or would they emerge from the cocoon having retained some sort of advantage?

sciencing.com/happens-inside-chrysalis-butterfly-8148799.html

Would the process look a little like this? I always thought butterflies just grew longer legs and wings or something. No apparently they dissolve their own body. Happy nightmares people!

Also, would you be able to go back and forward? Hypothetically I think most people would choose to make the most of a male physique in early puberty and adulthood, to make the most of sport, travelling, career climbing, safety etc.

Then if they wanted children I'd imagine they'd switch (although there may be some arguing with the partner there about who should carry and push a large baby out of their vagina.) Bit after children depending on what diseases your family are most prone to you would probably switch to whichever gave you the most chance of living long and pain free.

A similar question I always wondered is would our ideas of beauty change if you could change your appearance at will?

Yes even if this “perfect procedure” existed, it still wouldn’t change a person’s history, change other people’s right to remember and care about that history, or justify compelled speech and forced acceptance. So I would still place caveats on what these transformed people could/should be able to do.