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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

541 replies

pop91 · 26/03/2022 22:33

Hi,

To start I wanna say I'm writing this post in good faith to provide the viewpoint of a Trans person with Gender Critical parents but I know this is the internet and this will probably just be trolled to death but here goes.

I had a pretty regular 'happy' family setup, and apparently first told my parents of my identity at just 5yrs old but the first I remember is at 8yrs old when I refused to go by my 'very gendered' birth name but my parents insisted on using it especially publicly.

My parents were never particularly strict on gender roles in the home - my sister would wear my dad's glasses and jacket and stomp around with his briefcase in hand and my brother had an emo phase with heels and mascara to match and apart from some grumbling from my father it was never the biggest issue in our house.

Sexuality was different though even though my father would class himself as a pragmatic centrist, barring a socialist university phase, and my mother a card-carrying progressive New Labour type whose Best Friend was the most flamboyant gay man and an Aunt who lived with her 'friend' until she passed. There was an uncomfortableness with sexuality where both my parents would call it a lifestyle choice and opposed gay marriage - cut to three years ago when my older brother came out as bisexual and last month the youngest sister as a lesbian Grin but rest assured the other 3 siblings remain firmly 'normal.'

Back to me and by 12 I had started puberty and was experiencing debilitating gender dysphoria - I would look into the mirror and see nothing that matched my brain. I would continue to feel this way until the bullying and dysphoria got so bad that one night I climbed into my bathtub with a kitchen knife hoping I could change my body to fit my brain somehow I managed not to perform self-surgery in my bathtub.

A couple of months later I came clean to my parents, I wasn't expecting a big hug but I wasn't expecting what came next. They ignored it as if I had told them what I wanted for dinner, they decided they didn't hear what I had said at all.

Over the next year, the internet became my friend as I found ways to affirm my gender by doing hidden things at first and then slowly more outward things. I came out to my siblings and although they found it confusing my oldest brother and sister were a godsend who I wouldn't have survived without, They helped me pick out a new haircut and new clothes and we came up with a new name.

I came out in school and sure there was bullying but I was feeling so Euphoric that it almost didn't matter. When the teachers found out they informed my parents and that's when everything changed! My parents sat me down and said I was just confused. They threw out my new clothes, anything that I used to affirm my gender, even my shoes and magazines then they took my bedroom door off and took away my laptop and phone and forced my older siblings to refer to me by my birth name, my older brother and sister stopped supporting me and I lost my only family support and anything that was helping me.

Eventually, when they realised everything they had done hadn't worked and I still felt the same way, they decided to try both religious and non-religious conversion therapy which left permanent scarring to my mental health and I frequently have nightmares about it.

At 15 I had my first suicide attempt and my parents forced me to lie and say it was due just to bullying at school but that wasn't true it was the dysphoria and conversion therapy that was killing me.

From 15 to 17 I had multiple suicide attempts and after the third one, my parents finally allowed me to stop the conversion therapy but still forcibly live as my 'biological' sex.

Eventually, I managed to get to a great University and at 18 I socially transitioned and by 20 I had started hormones. I now have a job that provides me financial stability and have an amazing partner, with 2 children from a prior relationship that I now consider like my own. We are also now having a baby very soon.

My mother now describes herself as Gender Critical and frequently posts online about how she will be unable to see her grandchildren because of her views, which is true as I will not allow my parents to see either my child or stepchildren.

My parents continue to refuse to acknowledge my identity and pronouns. The last time we talked, she said she believes I am just gay, which neither makes sense considering my partner's gender nor the fact she also has a terrible relationship with my lesbian sister and bisexual brother who also rarely allows his child to visit my mum, due to her comments about their sexualities.

I finally have the support back of all my siblings and we do frequently gather without my parents. I hope one day my parents change their minds but honestly I don't hold much hope and I don't know if I could forgive what they did to me.

A lot of online trans activists wish trans children for Gender Criticals but I don't, it wasn't very nice at all. If you're going to ask if I think kids should transition, the answer is I don't know as I didn't transition as a child and a social transition helped plenty for me.

Well that's it I think, just the perspective and experience of a trans person with Gender Critical parents, feel free to ask any reasonable questions or respectful questions. Smile

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 28/03/2022 09:50

No your experience is your experience- mine is mine.

That doesn't mean one type of experience isn't more common than another. I'd be very very surprised if the majority of girls did not experience at least some level of distress about dealing with periods, the physical changes which go with puberty, and the often unwanted attention and comments from men and boys which follow. I have no statistics, but I think it's pretty obvious that girls may not readily admit these feelings, even to their friends, probably because they wrongly feel that everyone else is handling it fine apart from them.

Sandinmyhooves · 28/03/2022 09:19

Hated my body as a teenager. Hated the unwanted attention. Wanted to remove breasts. Nothing to do with wanting to be a man - all about fucking patriarchy as per, but I can see why it’s so confusing being a teenage girl today.

The male gaze is such a warped view of womanhood. All transwomen can aspire to is that over sexualised, commodified, hollow version of being a woman and my god does it show.

KimikosNightmare · 28/03/2022 09:18

@Clymene

I hated puberty *@KimikosNightmare*. I got very large breasts seemingly overnight and got teased mercilessly about them. I was sexually assaulted, and flashed at. I didn't feel ready for sex but pressured into doing it.

My sister hated it so much she became anorexic.

I'd suggest your experience is more unusual than mine.

No your experience is your experience- mine is mine.
mudgetastic · 28/03/2022 09:04

Isn't it fascinating that there seems to be so little research we can fall back on as to the effects of puberty on girls
Physical effects known but the mental impact , whilst known to be greater for girls
, is much less wel understood

So we can't say what proportion of girls feel none mild, moderate or severe distress

Clymene · 28/03/2022 08:42

I hated puberty @KimikosNightmare. I got very large breasts seemingly overnight and got teased mercilessly about them. I was sexually assaulted, and flashed at. I didn't feel ready for sex but pressured into doing it.

My sister hated it so much she became anorexic.

I'd suggest your experience is more unusual than mine.

marvellousmaple · 28/03/2022 05:08

Snoring . Boring. Find another thing to whine about. Try to make it something not about yourself. Waiting. waiting. Fallen asleep.

nepeta · 28/03/2022 05:07

Hitler's party was called National Socialists. It was not a socialist party (www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists).

In exactly the same manner, the OP's parents calling themselves gender critical did not make them so. Gender critical feminists, sadly, are not yet a unified big power group with headquarters in New York City, Geneva, London, and Paris, so we cannot send out guidance on how to exclude the OPs mother and father from the group. As they never belonged, I think, though I am sorry for the parenting the OP describes in this thread.

I am fascinated by the idea of matching heels to mascara and with red mascara! I had never head of either before today!

bluesapphire48 · 28/03/2022 03:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

KimikosNightmare · 28/03/2022 01:29

@runningfromreality

Ha. Yes... show me a teenage girl happy with her puberty and I show you the exception!
I don't recall going through any of the angst which seems to be considered normal on here, wasn't aware of any of my friends doing so either.
Soontobe60 · 27/03/2022 23:51

@pop91

Okay people if not Cis then we can we say you're 'not trans' or is that offensive too?
We don’t refer to short women as non tall women, black women as non white women, young women as non young women, French women as non English women. In all of these cases, the noun is woman - adult human female. That’s all that’s needed unless we’re designing clothes for women under 5’, or the title of a support group for women who are Black, or a book club for women who speak French as a first language… I could go on.
TheLoneRager · 27/03/2022 23:18

@BinBandit 19:44

Excellent post.

How about people have the body they have, find who they like attractive and pursue whatever interests they like instead of chopping of bits of themselves, taking hormones and talking absolute pish? Maybe some mental health treatment is more appropriate? You cannot be born "in the wrong body" and you cannot change sex.

If people spent more time worrying about, oh. I don't know, maybe Ukraine, or global warming or their elderly neighbour who struggles to get to the shops and hasn't any family, and less time obsessing about their bodies and gender presentation, they'd all be a lot happier and healthier too.

ScrollingLeaves · 27/03/2022 22:56

One thing that confuses me, and means I am not entirely gender critical probably, is that I think it might be part of a person’s male or female sex to want to signal that sex, or sometimes, on the contrary, want to muffle that signal. In other words I don’t think it is just social stereotyping if it is driven by biology.

Not that I know how this fits with wanting to change your apparent sex within society.

StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:50

OP, please look carefully into all possible outcomes if you're considering phalloplasty. I've seen people having very difficult healing, nasty scarring, having to have revision surgeries, being left incontinent, not being very happy with the result. Maybe even consider putting it off for a while until surgical techniques have improved?

Helleofabore · 27/03/2022 22:40

What I can say, is that this and the other thread is bringing many new usernames to post. Maybe some are namechangers. But I think most are new posters. And it is wonderful to see !!!

Helleofabore · 27/03/2022 22:38

Well no one I am friends with is ‘cis’. It shines a fucking huge light on the ridiculousness of that definition. It requires everyone else to conform in any way.

That is what I find most people who call us cis hate to hear. But it has probably been true for many of us for decades. Yet, here we are being told we conform to an either or description.

To make someone else feel better about themselves.

Ffs I am so glad my own teen understands that the only thing we required of them was to do a wide range of subjects at school so as not to limit their future decisions.

That and doing two specific weekly chores that are not rooted in sex stereotypes but earned them pocket money.

I would be horrified if my teen fitted the ‘cis’ box too.

I mean, who really does?

That is why it is so offensive. It seems to be premised in one group being special and non-conforming and the other not.

StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:34

@WarriorN

*I LIKE having a dick and a beard and a flat male chest. I DISLIKE having a vagina and a smooth face and tits. I LIKE being called my name and He/Him. I DISLIKE being called my birthname and She/Her.*

It's all just costume in a world where cosmetic surgery can be done in a lunch break.

As a previous poster said, men and women can have any type of personality, any likes or dislikes, it doesn't change their sex.
Photinia · 27/03/2022 22:32

pop, this was doing the rounds a while ago. It's simplistic and it probably misrepresents your views, but I think it neatly illustrates two things: why you and we are all OK with baggy jumpers (and any other signifier of gender) on either sex body; and the overlap between gender-critical feminists and conservatives (which I would suggest is where your parents are in this, however they describe themselves) in the belief that sex is a physical phenomenon related to chromosomes etc.

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ
StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:27

@RoseslnTheHospital

There is no opposite of trans. It's like asking what's the opposite of Catholic.
Yes, exactly that. My friend is from Northern Ireland, and it's really hard for some people there to get their head round the fact that he's neither Catholic nor Protestant.
StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:24

@AlisonDonut

All those years of working on girls to expand their minds to be able to do whatever they want to do.

Shattered by this toxic ideology which tells them if they want to do/wear 'man things' they are a man.

What a fucking waste of time.

Yes, and pushing people into gender boxes, insisting they're "cis".

It seems selfish to me.

StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:19

"I guess someone must have moulded my brain to be more male from birth then."

What do you mean by "more male", please?

What do you see as being the difference between male and female brains?

Thank you.

runningfromreality · 27/03/2022 22:14

Ha. Yes... show me a teenage girl happy with her puberty and I show you the exception!

StellaAndCrow · 27/03/2022 22:10

@Helleofabore

No Binders are not neutral but neither is clothing that made me look more masculine or hide breasts. Even a tighter shirt underneath and wider pants helped hide curves.

right. But we have already agreed that your parents were abusive. Hiding 'curves' is certainly something I did, and certainly something I do now. 'binders' can cause damage and harm. Whereas wearing clothes that hide 'curves' are not flattening breast tissue causing harm.

There is a difference, and I think you know this.

Yes, all my friends and I did the "hiding curves" thing in our teens - those days it was mostly with baggy shirts and jumpers.
runningfromreality · 27/03/2022 22:04

Male =has a willy

Female - doesn't.

I'm 'gender critical' because the whole societal roles that are placed on us based on whether we are male or female is hugely offensive and not helpful.

OP?

Helleofabore · 27/03/2022 21:58

@RoseslnTheHospital

I hate to break it to you. *@pop91*, that you are also critical of gender, or gender critical if you will.
I think that OP has perhaps more in common with the majority of posters in this board than they realise.

However, when transitioned female post on this board, rather than well meaning entrenched allies, that does seem the case.

No females transitioners try to use the ‘we are opposite sex and always were’ rhetoric. It would be surprising, I think, if they thought about it more. The huge difference between male and female transitioners.

Yes, we might get frustrated a the repeated misrepresentations if our beliefs ( or the common beliefs we hold) but there is a nuanced difference between talking to pop and other transitioned females and those transitioned males or well meaning but again very entrenched allies.

And I do wonder if OP realises there is some common ground and maybe much more than they ever understood.

Blogblogblogblog · 27/03/2022 21:55

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

OP would you take time to read this with an open mind? I don’t think lots of people have actually read it as people prefer shorter stuff on Twitter. JKR, like many of us, is/was a labour supporter. I can’t imagine her ever being right wing listening to her. You will find a lot of us moan about being politically homeless on this board as labour and greens have difficulty working out a how to redefine women and men - no one has done that successfully yet as gender is so wish-washy. Sticking to the dictionary definition using biological sex works for health and safeguarding everyone. Mums (most of us here) are particularly keen on safeguarding women and our children. Our biology dictates it.