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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

541 replies

pop91 · 26/03/2022 22:33

Hi,

To start I wanna say I'm writing this post in good faith to provide the viewpoint of a Trans person with Gender Critical parents but I know this is the internet and this will probably just be trolled to death but here goes.

I had a pretty regular 'happy' family setup, and apparently first told my parents of my identity at just 5yrs old but the first I remember is at 8yrs old when I refused to go by my 'very gendered' birth name but my parents insisted on using it especially publicly.

My parents were never particularly strict on gender roles in the home - my sister would wear my dad's glasses and jacket and stomp around with his briefcase in hand and my brother had an emo phase with heels and mascara to match and apart from some grumbling from my father it was never the biggest issue in our house.

Sexuality was different though even though my father would class himself as a pragmatic centrist, barring a socialist university phase, and my mother a card-carrying progressive New Labour type whose Best Friend was the most flamboyant gay man and an Aunt who lived with her 'friend' until she passed. There was an uncomfortableness with sexuality where both my parents would call it a lifestyle choice and opposed gay marriage - cut to three years ago when my older brother came out as bisexual and last month the youngest sister as a lesbian Grin but rest assured the other 3 siblings remain firmly 'normal.'

Back to me and by 12 I had started puberty and was experiencing debilitating gender dysphoria - I would look into the mirror and see nothing that matched my brain. I would continue to feel this way until the bullying and dysphoria got so bad that one night I climbed into my bathtub with a kitchen knife hoping I could change my body to fit my brain somehow I managed not to perform self-surgery in my bathtub.

A couple of months later I came clean to my parents, I wasn't expecting a big hug but I wasn't expecting what came next. They ignored it as if I had told them what I wanted for dinner, they decided they didn't hear what I had said at all.

Over the next year, the internet became my friend as I found ways to affirm my gender by doing hidden things at first and then slowly more outward things. I came out to my siblings and although they found it confusing my oldest brother and sister were a godsend who I wouldn't have survived without, They helped me pick out a new haircut and new clothes and we came up with a new name.

I came out in school and sure there was bullying but I was feeling so Euphoric that it almost didn't matter. When the teachers found out they informed my parents and that's when everything changed! My parents sat me down and said I was just confused. They threw out my new clothes, anything that I used to affirm my gender, even my shoes and magazines then they took my bedroom door off and took away my laptop and phone and forced my older siblings to refer to me by my birth name, my older brother and sister stopped supporting me and I lost my only family support and anything that was helping me.

Eventually, when they realised everything they had done hadn't worked and I still felt the same way, they decided to try both religious and non-religious conversion therapy which left permanent scarring to my mental health and I frequently have nightmares about it.

At 15 I had my first suicide attempt and my parents forced me to lie and say it was due just to bullying at school but that wasn't true it was the dysphoria and conversion therapy that was killing me.

From 15 to 17 I had multiple suicide attempts and after the third one, my parents finally allowed me to stop the conversion therapy but still forcibly live as my 'biological' sex.

Eventually, I managed to get to a great University and at 18 I socially transitioned and by 20 I had started hormones. I now have a job that provides me financial stability and have an amazing partner, with 2 children from a prior relationship that I now consider like my own. We are also now having a baby very soon.

My mother now describes herself as Gender Critical and frequently posts online about how she will be unable to see her grandchildren because of her views, which is true as I will not allow my parents to see either my child or stepchildren.

My parents continue to refuse to acknowledge my identity and pronouns. The last time we talked, she said she believes I am just gay, which neither makes sense considering my partner's gender nor the fact she also has a terrible relationship with my lesbian sister and bisexual brother who also rarely allows his child to visit my mum, due to her comments about their sexualities.

I finally have the support back of all my siblings and we do frequently gather without my parents. I hope one day my parents change their minds but honestly I don't hold much hope and I don't know if I could forgive what they did to me.

A lot of online trans activists wish trans children for Gender Criticals but I don't, it wasn't very nice at all. If you're going to ask if I think kids should transition, the answer is I don't know as I didn't transition as a child and a social transition helped plenty for me.

Well that's it I think, just the perspective and experience of a trans person with Gender Critical parents, feel free to ask any reasonable questions or respectful questions. Smile

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 02:11

I agree that sex is real.

Why do you think that gender is real while race is not? Aren't they both just social constructs?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:09

@sacredfeminina

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

race isn't real.

Sex and Gender are.

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AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 02:09

@sacredfeminina

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

I'm also very interested in understanding why you think this is different. If identifying as a man or a woman is enough to make you a man or a woman, why doesn't identifying as a certain race make you a person of that race?
pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:09

@Lovelyricepudding

What would gender critical parents mean by forcing you to live as your sex? The only thing I can think of for my teenage dc would be the correct type of contraception and for the girls to have access to sanitary products and supportive bras especially for sport. I would also expect any boys to play sport with other boys and for both to respect the privacy and dignity of others by only using single sex spaces which accord with their sex.

Did you not respect the dignity and privacy of others until your parents required this of you? And do you ignore this now?

I don't play sports. no, not even at school.

They forced me to go by my birth name and pronouns and insisted I wear the 'right' clothes.

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sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 02:05

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:04

@sacredfeminina

Another question - are you sexually aroused by imagining yourself as a woman?
Um, I think I'm repulsed by this question for more than 100 reasons.

I don't feel sexually anything about my gender identity.

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sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 02:03

Women dress like women because womens clothes are designed for womens bodies. Our bodies are shaped due to our function of pro-creation. Ive just had my third baby in 5 years and THANK GOD for wrap around maternity dresses. I also often envy my fellas work trousers. We live an off grid life, and flappy dresses are a practical nightmare ( when not breastfeeding in a heap). But no way his trousers will stay up comfortably...

If however you are on about the fashions that women adorn in order to attract the opposite sex: heels, skimpy dresses etc... Thats a different ballgame and is all based on a perception of what is sexually appealing.

So do transwomen adopt clothing that is designed for the female sexed body...

Or clothes that they believe entice men

Or clothes they are sexually aroused by.

And then, why?

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 27/03/2022 02:03

And of course we could fund it all with all those Russian roubles and Christian Right/far right dollars. Sorted.

AgathaMystery · 27/03/2022 02:03

Stop derailing you’re all awful. Hmm

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 27/03/2022 02:02

We should have headed notepaper. I want headed notepaper.

Yes!!!

What about if we start our own hotel chain, and then we could have little headed courtesy notepads in all the rooms? Pens?

Personalised chocolates on the pillows?

I’m very keen on the secret lodge idea too.

LosingTheWill2022 · 27/03/2022 02:01

@Lovelyricepudding

Female refers to the sex with large immobile gametes but alone is insufficient as it doesn't tell us what specied. A female could be a tib, pen, sow, nanny, mare, jill, cow, bitch, hen, doe... obviously human females are none of these. The words for a human female are girl and women. The words for human males are boy and man.
Very clearly explained.

The stereotyping comes with the descriptors "masculine" and "feminine".

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:00

@sacredfeminina

OP, do you think someone can be transrace.if someone hates their skin colour, feels alienated and has gone to great lengths to change it because they 'feel' a different race, Is that acceptable?
No
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Lovelyricepudding · 27/03/2022 00:59

Meetings are in person, at the full moon at your local bus depot.

What happens if a non-GC person turns up to catch the last bus? Are they scared off with ribbons?

OvaHere · 27/03/2022 00:58

Lol @AgathaMystery

OvaHere · 27/03/2022 00:57

We should have headed notepaper. I want headed notepaper.
Grin

AgathaMystery · 27/03/2022 00:56

@OvaHere

Should the GC movement not make it clearer than that ppl like my parents aren't welcome?

The 'GC movement' are just people who think biology is real and sex immutable.

We don't have a head office, a secret lodge or headed notepaper.

Gosh this is awkward. It’s late now but tomorrow we will swear you in & I, or one of the other dinosaurs, will pop your complimentary t-towel and AHF stickers in the post.

Meetings are in person, at the full moon at your local bus depot. Marks are optional but obvs bring your broomstick.

pop91 · 27/03/2022 00:56

@oliviastwisted

Good for you OP. Your parents sound absolutely shit. Sorry.

I’m gender critical my teenage DD and all of her friends are massively experimenting with gender. I joked to her that the are in the Matrix because they have all chosen to my ear computer sounding nicknames rather than male/female names as quite a few are NB and now they call themselves the matrix as a group.

I couldn’t be prouder of her as a mother and I will always support her whatever she decides. I do caution her about the clashes between extreme gender ideology and womens rights and the perils of medical transition because there simply is no magic wand to achieve a full transition - however if she needed to medically transition to alleviate dysphoria I would totally respect that- but I use pronouns for her and her friends as she asks me, hers change on and off, I encourage her to present how she is comfortable very gender neutrally etc

I can have GC views and mother my child as she is and she is absolutely perfect as she is as a gender non confirming child.

Your parents should have parented the child they had. You did not deserve those experiences. It sounds very traumatic.

@oliviastwisted

You sound like a really good mum, to be honest.

I wouldn't have minded anything you've just said from my mum even if I disagreed.

I hope you and your daughter are doing well Smile

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sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 00:54

Yes lovely rice pudding!! Perfect articulation.

TinselAngel · 27/03/2022 00:54

@OvaHere

Should the GC movement not make it clearer than that ppl like my parents aren't welcome?

The 'GC movement' are just people who think biology is real and sex immutable.

We don't have a head office, a secret lodge or headed notepaper.

We should have headed notepaper. I want headed notepaper.
OvaHere · 27/03/2022 00:52

Should the GC movement not make it clearer than that ppl like my parents aren't welcome?

The 'GC movement' are just people who think biology is real and sex immutable.

We don't have a head office, a secret lodge or headed notepaper.

sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 00:52

^Well to me Man, Women and Non-Binary are all identities whereas male, female and intersex are biological and normally they work together:
Female = Women

and sometimes they don't:
Female = Man^

Ok but up until now woman = female. Our laws are based on this. Every reference of the word woman in a literature has meant female person. Why on earth should we turn this upside down. Why would anyone require such a confusing change of language?

Lovelyricepudding · 27/03/2022 00:52

Female refers to the sex with large immobile gametes but alone is insufficient as it doesn't tell us what specied. A female could be a tib, pen, sow, nanny, mare, jill, cow, bitch, hen, doe... obviously human females are none of these. The words for a human female are girl and women. The words for human males are boy and man.

AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 00:51

Well to me Man, Women and Non-Binary are all identities whereas male, female and intersex are biological

This is what I am still struggling to understand. If being a woman (or a man) is an identity, what does that actually mean? Is it about feeling an affinity with the gender stereotypes typically associated with one sex or another?

If so, where does that leave people who firmly believe that they are women (or men) but don't feel any affinity with the stereotypes that are traditionally associated with their sex?

I struggle with the fact that the definition of being a woman always seems to come back to feeling like a woman, but there is never any clarity about what this actually means. I really do want to understand where people are coming from with this, as from where I stand, it really does seem to be about little more than gender stereotypes, and I would like us to get rid of those rather than reinforcing them.

LittleWhingingWoman · 27/03/2022 00:50

How old are you now?

The behaviours of your parents sound extreme - I don't know any gender critical parents who would throw your clothes out - we grew up with loads of gender bending role models.

Also religious and non religious conversion therapy?
Are you parents religious? Most GC women I know are left leaning non church types.

pop91 · 27/03/2022 00:49

@Sandinmyhooves

If it’s not just clothes and haircuts, why do so many (an overwhelming majority) only define via clothes and haircuts?
I guess because it's an easy signifier.

and it's the same for cis people, most women dress like women and most men dress like men.

So it's not surprising that trans men dress like men and trans women dress like women.

personally, I'm playing around more with my clothing than ever before as my top surgery gave me gender confidence that I don't need clothes to signify as much.

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